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worries about 2nd edition (archiving this for posterity)
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<blockquote data-quote="EricNoah" data-source="post: 1515539" data-attributes="member: 4"><p>I dug this stuff up and posted it while 3E was still in development, maybe 3 message boards ago. While cleaning out my D&D 3E News e-mails today, I came across it again. I'm just posting this for posterity so that if someone is searching for it they can find it. </p><p></p><p>--------</p><p></p><p>I've been reading through issues of Dragon Magazine (gotta love that CD-ROM archive!) and have found some quotes about the decision to create a 2nd edition of D&D. I think some of the complaints/worries/predictions are kind of amusing.</p><p></p><p>------------------------------</p><p></p><p>Dragon #120 -- Editorial:</p><p>With the second edition of the AD&D game presently in the works, more complaints and letter expressing confusion arrive each day. Some gamers worry that their favorite classes will no longer be part of the “official” rules, hence they will no longer be able to use them in play. Still others complain that they are displeased with having to buy the second edition — a purchase which will outmode their first-edition rules. These same people are further annoyed that the second-edition rules won’t mesh with the first edition, thereby “forcing” them to purchase the second edition. In the end, it all leads up to one thing: a lot of needless worry and unnecessary complaints.</p><p></p><p>-------------------</p><p>Dragon #119 -- Zeb Cook on Character Classes</p><p>(which ones to keep, which ones to pitch)</p><p></p><p>The assassin is a goner — virtually guar-</p><p>anteed. It is highly unlikely that any</p><p>amount of appeal will save his neck. He is</p><p>disruptive to party harmony and, more</p><p>importantly, presents the wrong image</p><p>about AD&D games. If you really like</p><p>assassin characters, I’m sorry, but you can</p><p>still use the first-edition character class.</p><p></p><p>The bard just doesn’t work. Too many</p><p>confused rules and special exceptions</p><p>were created just to make the bard fly.</p><p>Some of his powers were seriously unbal-</p><p>ancing and dumb (in my personal opinion).</p><p>Finally, the way he is described, the bard</p><p>really belongs only in a Western European</p><p>setting. Whoever heard of an Amerind</p><p>bard with a magical harp or a Polynesian</p><p>harpist bard? (I’m sure I’ll hear from some-</p><p>one.) Thus, the bard as he currently exists</p><p>will die. But is he gone? I don’t know for</p><p>sure. It seems like a good idea to heavily</p><p>redesign the bard to fit with the rules and</p><p>increase his playability. If this happened, it</p><p>would probably mean a character class</p><p>that specialized in communication and</p><p>dealing with people. We’ll see what</p><p>happens.</p><p></p><p>-------------------------------</p><p></p><p>Dragon #121 -- Zeb Cook responding to quotes from letters he's received about the prospect of 2nd Edition</p><p></p><p>“The best way to avoid edition three is to</p><p>make allowance for changes.” — Kerry T. Brown</p><p></p><p>Really, I do want to avoid having to do a</p><p>Third Edition —at least having to repeat</p><p>what I’m going through on Second Edition!</p><p>The only way to do this is to build a set of</p><p>core rules that can accommodate the</p><p>inevitable changes and additions that will</p><p>come. Just as the First Edition was not</p><p>perfect, I know that new and better ideas</p><p>will surface after Second Edition is done.</p><p>Our current plan is that we haven’t got a</p><p>plan. We are still looking at a lot of differ-</p><p>ent ideas. Currently, all of them revolve</p><p>around building a core set of rules that</p><p>can be used by all players. One thought is</p><p>that there would be two hardbound rule</p><p>books— the Players Handbook and the</p><p>Dungeon Masters Handbook (note the title</p><p>change).</p><p></p><p>“We have spent a lot of time and money</p><p>on the game. . . .After buying the present</p><p>books, I do not relish the thought of buy-</p><p>ing them all over again!” — Bill Aasvanger</p><p></p><p>As I have said before, TSR is well aware</p><p>of the investment you have made in the</p><p>AD&D game. We are trying to make sure</p><p>the Second Edition will grow and expand</p><p>without out-dating the core rules. No one</p><p>is trying to arrange the AD&D game sys-</p><p>tem so you must buy every rule book we</p><p>print. If we do our job right, you and a lot</p><p>of new players will want the core rules of</p><p>the Second Edition because they are good.</p><p>Anything that follows is optional, and</p><p>optional means just that — you make the</p><p>choice, not us. Certainly, we hope that you</p><p>will buy these expansion rule books, based</p><p>on the quality and usefulness of the</p><p>product. We are not trying to rip you off.</p><p></p><p>“The first and most pressing comment I</p><p>have to make is that revised game remain</p><p>100% compatible with the old.” — John J.</p><p>Strasser</p><p></p><p>This comment is almost identical to one</p><p>of our design standards for Second Edi-</p><p>tion, design standards being the guidelines</p><p>game designers live by (or try to live by).</p><p>One of the big issues of the Second Edition</p><p>is compatibility. It’s not my intention to</p><p>force you to throw away your old rule</p><p>books and rush out to buy the Second</p><p>Edition. You want to be able to pick up the</p><p>Second Edition rules and use them in your</p><p>campaign without having to make exten-</p><p>sive changes first. That is a perfectly fair</p><p>demand on your part.</p><p></p><p>Now, 100% compatibility is just not</p><p>possible. There are things that must be</p><p>fixed. There are inevitable improvements</p><p>and new ideas, These things are going to</p><p>prevent Second Edition from being 100%</p><p>compatible. Just what percent compatibil-</p><p>ity we wind up with, I can’t say. Indeed,</p><p>the need to keep things compatible results</p><p>in us not making some changes that would</p><p>only confuse the issue. Take the armor</p><p>class numbering system. To many players,</p><p>it does not make sense that the worst</p><p>armor classes have higher numbers, and it</p><p>would seem simple to change it. However,</p><p>reversing the order of the armor class</p><p>numbers would invalidate every AD&D</p><p>game campaign and product in existence.</p><p>For compatibility’s sake, it is better to</p><p>make no change, since this change is not</p><p>worth the trouble it will cause.</p><p></p><p>“I will refuse to buy any second edition</p><p>books if your plan is to change everything</p><p>around so that it’s based on proficiencies.”</p><p>— Guy Ellison</p><p></p><p>There will be a proficiency system, and</p><p>it will be presented as an optional rule.</p><p>The proficiency system (similar to that of</p><p>Oriental Adventures and the two survival-</p><p>guide books) is there to give your game</p><p>more range and scope. The proficiency</p><p>system can be as important or unimport-</p><p>ant as you want. The basic abilities of</p><p>characters will still be defined by classes,</p><p>but other talents will be available to the</p><p>character. The AD&D game will be as</p><p>playable with proficiencies as without</p><p>them. It is yet another area where we are</p><p>trying to build and increase your range of</p><p>choices that you have in creating a</p><p>campaign.</p><p></p><p>------------------------------------</p><p></p><p>Dragon # 130 -- Jon Pickens talks about magic</p><p></p><p>A number of you would like to see a</p><p>spell-point system. You will be disap-</p><p>pointed. Spell-point systems are more</p><p>complex than the current system, and</p><p>trying to balance them is a pain. For exam-</p><p>ple, in a very simple system in which a</p><p>spell costs one point per spell level, a</p><p>typical high-level cleric will seldom run</p><p>out of cures, which creates severe balance</p><p>problems in play.</p><p></p><p></p><p>On the other hand, cantrips will disap-</p><p>pear from the core rules (we have to get</p><p>space from somewhere). The basic prob-</p><p>lem that cantrips were introduced to solve</p><p>– that of a 1st-level magic-user trapped in</p><p>a 3- to 4-hour adventure with only one</p><p>spell – will be dealt with in some other</p><p>fashion. The idea of giving magic-users</p><p>bonus spells for intelligence has problems;</p><p>magic-users with intelligence scores of 9-</p><p>15 are driven out of business.</p><p></p><p>---------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p>Dragon #139 -- Zeb Cook on Playtesting</p><p></p><p>As mentioned above, Jon ran the play-</p><p>testing of the second-edition rules. This</p><p>doesn’t mean he was out there running</p><p>playtesting games himself (Jon worked</p><p>hard), but he estab-</p><p>lished and monitored our playtesting</p><p>groups. These groups had players just like</p><p>you, RPGA™ Network members who vol-</p><p>unteered to take part in our work. All</p><p>told, Jon worked with about 20-30 groups.</p><p>Now, I don’t know exact numbers, but if</p><p>each group had an average of six players,</p><p>that means about 100-200 players actually</p><p>did the playtesting. Furthermore, they did</p><p>the playtesting for eight months or more.</p><p>On top of that, we have 10 years of com-</p><p>ments, suggestions, criticisms, letters,</p><p>DRAGON® Magazine articles, and two GEN</p><p>CON® game fairs (and several regional</p><p>conventions) that solicited your views.</p><p>Thus, you have the most thoroughly play-</p><p>tested and developed game done yet by</p><p>TSR, Inc. (I won’t be so rash as to claim</p><p>that it’s the most thoroughly playtested</p><p>and designed game in the industry, but I</p><p>think there are few games out there that</p><p>have received as much attention.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EricNoah, post: 1515539, member: 4"] I dug this stuff up and posted it while 3E was still in development, maybe 3 message boards ago. While cleaning out my D&D 3E News e-mails today, I came across it again. I'm just posting this for posterity so that if someone is searching for it they can find it. -------- I've been reading through issues of Dragon Magazine (gotta love that CD-ROM archive!) and have found some quotes about the decision to create a 2nd edition of D&D. I think some of the complaints/worries/predictions are kind of amusing. ------------------------------ Dragon #120 -- Editorial: With the second edition of the AD&D game presently in the works, more complaints and letter expressing confusion arrive each day. Some gamers worry that their favorite classes will no longer be part of the “official” rules, hence they will no longer be able to use them in play. Still others complain that they are displeased with having to buy the second edition — a purchase which will outmode their first-edition rules. These same people are further annoyed that the second-edition rules won’t mesh with the first edition, thereby “forcing” them to purchase the second edition. In the end, it all leads up to one thing: a lot of needless worry and unnecessary complaints. ------------------- Dragon #119 -- Zeb Cook on Character Classes (which ones to keep, which ones to pitch) The assassin is a goner — virtually guar- anteed. It is highly unlikely that any amount of appeal will save his neck. He is disruptive to party harmony and, more importantly, presents the wrong image about AD&D games. If you really like assassin characters, I’m sorry, but you can still use the first-edition character class. The bard just doesn’t work. Too many confused rules and special exceptions were created just to make the bard fly. Some of his powers were seriously unbal- ancing and dumb (in my personal opinion). Finally, the way he is described, the bard really belongs only in a Western European setting. Whoever heard of an Amerind bard with a magical harp or a Polynesian harpist bard? (I’m sure I’ll hear from some- one.) Thus, the bard as he currently exists will die. But is he gone? I don’t know for sure. It seems like a good idea to heavily redesign the bard to fit with the rules and increase his playability. If this happened, it would probably mean a character class that specialized in communication and dealing with people. We’ll see what happens. ------------------------------- Dragon #121 -- Zeb Cook responding to quotes from letters he's received about the prospect of 2nd Edition “The best way to avoid edition three is to make allowance for changes.” — Kerry T. Brown Really, I do want to avoid having to do a Third Edition —at least having to repeat what I’m going through on Second Edition! The only way to do this is to build a set of core rules that can accommodate the inevitable changes and additions that will come. Just as the First Edition was not perfect, I know that new and better ideas will surface after Second Edition is done. Our current plan is that we haven’t got a plan. We are still looking at a lot of differ- ent ideas. Currently, all of them revolve around building a core set of rules that can be used by all players. One thought is that there would be two hardbound rule books— the Players Handbook and the Dungeon Masters Handbook (note the title change). “We have spent a lot of time and money on the game. . . .After buying the present books, I do not relish the thought of buy- ing them all over again!” — Bill Aasvanger As I have said before, TSR is well aware of the investment you have made in the AD&D game. We are trying to make sure the Second Edition will grow and expand without out-dating the core rules. No one is trying to arrange the AD&D game sys- tem so you must buy every rule book we print. If we do our job right, you and a lot of new players will want the core rules of the Second Edition because they are good. Anything that follows is optional, and optional means just that — you make the choice, not us. Certainly, we hope that you will buy these expansion rule books, based on the quality and usefulness of the product. We are not trying to rip you off. “The first and most pressing comment I have to make is that revised game remain 100% compatible with the old.” — John J. Strasser This comment is almost identical to one of our design standards for Second Edi- tion, design standards being the guidelines game designers live by (or try to live by). One of the big issues of the Second Edition is compatibility. It’s not my intention to force you to throw away your old rule books and rush out to buy the Second Edition. You want to be able to pick up the Second Edition rules and use them in your campaign without having to make exten- sive changes first. That is a perfectly fair demand on your part. Now, 100% compatibility is just not possible. There are things that must be fixed. There are inevitable improvements and new ideas, These things are going to prevent Second Edition from being 100% compatible. Just what percent compatibil- ity we wind up with, I can’t say. Indeed, the need to keep things compatible results in us not making some changes that would only confuse the issue. Take the armor class numbering system. To many players, it does not make sense that the worst armor classes have higher numbers, and it would seem simple to change it. However, reversing the order of the armor class numbers would invalidate every AD&D game campaign and product in existence. For compatibility’s sake, it is better to make no change, since this change is not worth the trouble it will cause. “I will refuse to buy any second edition books if your plan is to change everything around so that it’s based on proficiencies.” — Guy Ellison There will be a proficiency system, and it will be presented as an optional rule. The proficiency system (similar to that of Oriental Adventures and the two survival- guide books) is there to give your game more range and scope. The proficiency system can be as important or unimport- ant as you want. The basic abilities of characters will still be defined by classes, but other talents will be available to the character. The AD&D game will be as playable with proficiencies as without them. It is yet another area where we are trying to build and increase your range of choices that you have in creating a campaign. ------------------------------------ Dragon # 130 -- Jon Pickens talks about magic A number of you would like to see a spell-point system. You will be disap- pointed. Spell-point systems are more complex than the current system, and trying to balance them is a pain. For exam- ple, in a very simple system in which a spell costs one point per spell level, a typical high-level cleric will seldom run out of cures, which creates severe balance problems in play. On the other hand, cantrips will disap- pear from the core rules (we have to get space from somewhere). The basic prob- lem that cantrips were introduced to solve – that of a 1st-level magic-user trapped in a 3- to 4-hour adventure with only one spell – will be dealt with in some other fashion. The idea of giving magic-users bonus spells for intelligence has problems; magic-users with intelligence scores of 9- 15 are driven out of business. --------------------------------------------- Dragon #139 -- Zeb Cook on Playtesting As mentioned above, Jon ran the play- testing of the second-edition rules. This doesn’t mean he was out there running playtesting games himself (Jon worked hard), but he estab- lished and monitored our playtesting groups. These groups had players just like you, RPGA™ Network members who vol- unteered to take part in our work. All told, Jon worked with about 20-30 groups. Now, I don’t know exact numbers, but if each group had an average of six players, that means about 100-200 players actually did the playtesting. Furthermore, they did the playtesting for eight months or more. On top of that, we have 10 years of com- ments, suggestions, criticisms, letters, DRAGON® Magazine articles, and two GEN CON® game fairs (and several regional conventions) that solicited your views. Thus, you have the most thoroughly play- tested and developed game done yet by TSR, Inc. (I won’t be so rash as to claim that it’s the most thoroughly playtested and designed game in the industry, but I think there are few games out there that have received as much attention.) [/QUOTE]
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