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WotC Survey Result: Classes OK, Eberron Needs Work
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 7669908" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Anything could be folded into anything. You could just have one Ur-Class, call it Adventurer, and call it a day. Anything could be separated from anything. You could have one unique class for every skill/weapon/armor/spell role style out there. What becomes a class and what does not is largley arbitrary. </p><p></p><p>What matters in 5e is that if you decide something is a class, it needs to be big enough to be an independent class.</p><p></p><p>A bard in 5e earns its place as distinct from a wizard/sorcerer/warlock/etc. by having <strong>class features that are not spellcasting</strong>. Inspiration, Jack of All Trades, and Expertise all serve to define the Bard in their own roles, in ways that separate it from the other classes.</p><p></p><p>How well that works is probably open to some discussion, and one could argue that these abilities "don't matter" (I'd beg to differ, but it's pretty clearly a judgement call). The important thing is to realize that the goal of those abilities <em>is to separate the bard and make it distinct from other spellcasters</em> (even if it fails in that goal). </p><p></p><p>An artificer needs that, too. It needs its Bardic Inspiration, its Divine Domain, its Wild Shape, its Arcane Recovery (just to pick from among the full-casting classes). It is not enough to say "it makes items" - every spellcaster can do that. It is not enough to say "it makes items on the fly" or "it infuses magic into items" (ritual casting does the former, normal spellcasting does the latter). What does it do that no one else can? And I mean literally - <em>that no one else can</em>. The artificer's central narrative schtick in 3e and 4e - putting magic into items - is not sufficiently special or unique, so <em>what is</em>?</p><p></p><p>This is hardly an intractable problem. One idea might be to have floating "infusion dice" that you can trade off for some pseudo-magical effects (not unlike a battle master's expertise dice or a bard's inspiration dice). Something like, I dunno...</p><p></p><p>[sblock]</p><p><u>Infusion Dice</u></p><p>You know how to produce magical effects from raw materials, allowing the latent energy in wood, stone, crystal, and bone to bubble to the surface. Beginning at 1st level, you have a pool of infusion dice, which are d6's, equal to your Intelligence modifier plus your class level. When you infuse an object with arcane energy (a process taking 10 minutes, that lasts for 1 hour), you can imbue one or more of these dice into it as well, providing a specific kind of enhancement. At 1st level, you know two infusions, and you learn more infusions as you gain levels. The vocation you practice may also add infusions to your list...</p><p>LEVEL 1 INFUSIONS</p><p><strong>Recovery</strong>: Someone using the infused object can take their action to heal HP equal to the infusion dice placed in the object. They must use all infusion dice at once.</p><p></p><p><strong>Destruction</strong>: Someone who hits with an attack using the infused object can deal extra piercing, slashing, bludgeoning, fire, cold, acid, thunder, or lightning damage. Choose the damage type when you infuse the object. The user can only use one infusion die at a time. </p><p></p><p><strong>Resistance</strong>: Someone holding the infused object in a hand can use two infusion dice to gain resistance to piercing, slashing, bludgeoning, fire, cold, acid, thunder, or lightning damage. Choose the damage type when you infuse the object. An object with less than two infusion die cannot be activated to achieve this effect. </p><p></p><p><strong>Enhancement</strong>: Someone holding the infused object in a hand can use three infusion die to gain advantage on a single ability check, attack roll, or saving throw. Choose the type of roll when you infuse the object. An object with less than three infusion die cannot be activated to achieve this effect. </p><p>MYTHAL-WEAVER INFUSIONS</p><p>(area invisibility, enchantment, illusion, etc.)</p><p>RUNE-CARVER INFUSIONS</p><p>(+x to attack/damage or AC, improved crits, etc.)</p><p>ALCHEMIST INFUSIONS</p><p>(poison, fire, paralysis, domination, healing, etc.)</p><p>WARFORGER INFUSIONS</p><p>(give allies temp hp, heal wounds, enhance morale, etc.) </p><p></p><p><u>Personal Energy</u></p><p>At 2nd level, as long as an item you have infused doesn't leave your possession, its duration doesn't end. You don't get back any infusion dice you infused into the item for as long as the item is infused. The moment you lose posession of the item, the infusion lasts for 1 hour longer, even if you later pick the item back up. </p><p></p><p><u>Quick Fix</u></p><p>At X level, if you have the remains of a destroyed object, you can spend 1 infusion die to repair it entirely. It is a mundane item when repaired like this, and any magic or infusions it had are still lost. </p><p></p><p><u>Gather Energy</u></p><p>At X level, you can spend your action to gain X infusion dice that last for 1 minute. These dice can be infused into items you possess, but lose their infusions if you cease to possess them. </p><p></p><p>...etc.</p><p>[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>...but whatever it WOULD do, what would grind my gears is if the thing appeared as an independent class with little more than a thinly veiled warlock-infusion list or a bardic inspiration mimic or whatever. That's not a new class, it's a fresh coat of paint and some MS Word jargon replacement.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 7669908, member: 2067"] Anything could be folded into anything. You could just have one Ur-Class, call it Adventurer, and call it a day. Anything could be separated from anything. You could have one unique class for every skill/weapon/armor/spell role style out there. What becomes a class and what does not is largley arbitrary. What matters in 5e is that if you decide something is a class, it needs to be big enough to be an independent class. A bard in 5e earns its place as distinct from a wizard/sorcerer/warlock/etc. by having [B]class features that are not spellcasting[/B]. Inspiration, Jack of All Trades, and Expertise all serve to define the Bard in their own roles, in ways that separate it from the other classes. How well that works is probably open to some discussion, and one could argue that these abilities "don't matter" (I'd beg to differ, but it's pretty clearly a judgement call). The important thing is to realize that the goal of those abilities [I]is to separate the bard and make it distinct from other spellcasters[/I] (even if it fails in that goal). An artificer needs that, too. It needs its Bardic Inspiration, its Divine Domain, its Wild Shape, its Arcane Recovery (just to pick from among the full-casting classes). It is not enough to say "it makes items" - every spellcaster can do that. It is not enough to say "it makes items on the fly" or "it infuses magic into items" (ritual casting does the former, normal spellcasting does the latter). What does it do that no one else can? And I mean literally - [I]that no one else can[/I]. The artificer's central narrative schtick in 3e and 4e - putting magic into items - is not sufficiently special or unique, so [I]what is[/I]? This is hardly an intractable problem. One idea might be to have floating "infusion dice" that you can trade off for some pseudo-magical effects (not unlike a battle master's expertise dice or a bard's inspiration dice). Something like, I dunno... [sblock] [U]Infusion Dice[/U] You know how to produce magical effects from raw materials, allowing the latent energy in wood, stone, crystal, and bone to bubble to the surface. Beginning at 1st level, you have a pool of infusion dice, which are d6's, equal to your Intelligence modifier plus your class level. When you infuse an object with arcane energy (a process taking 10 minutes, that lasts for 1 hour), you can imbue one or more of these dice into it as well, providing a specific kind of enhancement. At 1st level, you know two infusions, and you learn more infusions as you gain levels. The vocation you practice may also add infusions to your list... LEVEL 1 INFUSIONS [B]Recovery[/B]: Someone using the infused object can take their action to heal HP equal to the infusion dice placed in the object. They must use all infusion dice at once. [B]Destruction[/B]: Someone who hits with an attack using the infused object can deal extra piercing, slashing, bludgeoning, fire, cold, acid, thunder, or lightning damage. Choose the damage type when you infuse the object. The user can only use one infusion die at a time. [B]Resistance[/B]: Someone holding the infused object in a hand can use two infusion dice to gain resistance to piercing, slashing, bludgeoning, fire, cold, acid, thunder, or lightning damage. Choose the damage type when you infuse the object. An object with less than two infusion die cannot be activated to achieve this effect. [B]Enhancement[/B]: Someone holding the infused object in a hand can use three infusion die to gain advantage on a single ability check, attack roll, or saving throw. Choose the type of roll when you infuse the object. An object with less than three infusion die cannot be activated to achieve this effect. MYTHAL-WEAVER INFUSIONS (area invisibility, enchantment, illusion, etc.) RUNE-CARVER INFUSIONS (+x to attack/damage or AC, improved crits, etc.) ALCHEMIST INFUSIONS (poison, fire, paralysis, domination, healing, etc.) WARFORGER INFUSIONS (give allies temp hp, heal wounds, enhance morale, etc.) [U]Personal Energy[/U] At 2nd level, as long as an item you have infused doesn't leave your possession, its duration doesn't end. You don't get back any infusion dice you infused into the item for as long as the item is infused. The moment you lose posession of the item, the infusion lasts for 1 hour longer, even if you later pick the item back up. [U]Quick Fix[/U] At X level, if you have the remains of a destroyed object, you can spend 1 infusion die to repair it entirely. It is a mundane item when repaired like this, and any magic or infusions it had are still lost. [U]Gather Energy[/U] At X level, you can spend your action to gain X infusion dice that last for 1 minute. These dice can be infused into items you possess, but lose their infusions if you cease to possess them. ...etc. [/sblock] ...but whatever it WOULD do, what would grind my gears is if the thing appeared as an independent class with little more than a thinly veiled warlock-infusion list or a bardic inspiration mimic or whatever. That's not a new class, it's a fresh coat of paint and some MS Word jargon replacement. [/QUOTE]
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