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WotC Survey Result: Classes OK, Eberron Needs Work
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 7669929" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Part of what I looked at with my infusion dice idea was the problem of the party only needing the artificer as an NPC - they can go into town, get their magic items, and leave town, leaving the artificer behind because they basically have all the features the class provides walking around with them. At the end of the day, they come back to town and get topped up. That's not a great class design because it doesn't encourage active use or decision-making, it's just "make the thing, then sit in the back and twiddle your thumbs." It's just off-the-cuff, but stuff like personal energy and gather energy and the 1 hour duration are there to make the player have to be present and have to make active decisions about how to use their turns. I'm not especially pleased with it (still seems anemic to me), but the class needs something to do that is "artificer-y" every time it gets a turn, and also when exploring a dungeon, and also when chatting with the nobles at the banquet (these can be different mechanics). Being able to gather some juice that must be used instantly is part of that solution.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The mimicing is not the right path to go down I think. 5e magic items don't have the "designed for everyday use" feature (and even if they COULD be used like that, they probably SHOULDN'T be, because that makes them much less special), and just looting from spell lists is only going to obscure the narrative and playstyle distinction - the more mimicing you do, the less able to stand on your own two legs you are. If you find some cloaks in an elven ruin, let the wizard tell you what they are. They're the experts in magical whatisits from bygone kajiggers. Artificers make new things as the situation demands, and they're not especially concerned about permanence. They make permanent magic items like anyone else - pay some gold, discover a formula, spend some time. Maybe they do it faster, and they don't need to know the spell (since they don't know spells, they infuse dice), but that's a "ribbon," to use WotC terminology, not a core feature. </p><p></p><p>Come up with a new mechanic and work with it to discover where IT leads. Let it be authentic to itself. If you are mimicing class abilities or spells or existing game elements too closely, you are just showing how empty your concept of the class is to begin with. It shouldn't NEED much in the way of other class's mechanics. It should be self-contained and complete and original. </p><p></p><p>The risk there is that your end product doesn't look a lot like the 3e or 4e artificer except in narrative and concept. You get a "playtest sorcerer" situation where what you make is interesting, but it's not really true to the play experience of the older versions of the character type. But if the narrative and concept is more important than the 3e or 4e mechanics, that'll do it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 7669929, member: 2067"] Part of what I looked at with my infusion dice idea was the problem of the party only needing the artificer as an NPC - they can go into town, get their magic items, and leave town, leaving the artificer behind because they basically have all the features the class provides walking around with them. At the end of the day, they come back to town and get topped up. That's not a great class design because it doesn't encourage active use or decision-making, it's just "make the thing, then sit in the back and twiddle your thumbs." It's just off-the-cuff, but stuff like personal energy and gather energy and the 1 hour duration are there to make the player have to be present and have to make active decisions about how to use their turns. I'm not especially pleased with it (still seems anemic to me), but the class needs something to do that is "artificer-y" every time it gets a turn, and also when exploring a dungeon, and also when chatting with the nobles at the banquet (these can be different mechanics). Being able to gather some juice that must be used instantly is part of that solution. The mimicing is not the right path to go down I think. 5e magic items don't have the "designed for everyday use" feature (and even if they COULD be used like that, they probably SHOULDN'T be, because that makes them much less special), and just looting from spell lists is only going to obscure the narrative and playstyle distinction - the more mimicing you do, the less able to stand on your own two legs you are. If you find some cloaks in an elven ruin, let the wizard tell you what they are. They're the experts in magical whatisits from bygone kajiggers. Artificers make new things as the situation demands, and they're not especially concerned about permanence. They make permanent magic items like anyone else - pay some gold, discover a formula, spend some time. Maybe they do it faster, and they don't need to know the spell (since they don't know spells, they infuse dice), but that's a "ribbon," to use WotC terminology, not a core feature. Come up with a new mechanic and work with it to discover where IT leads. Let it be authentic to itself. If you are mimicing class abilities or spells or existing game elements too closely, you are just showing how empty your concept of the class is to begin with. It shouldn't NEED much in the way of other class's mechanics. It should be self-contained and complete and original. The risk there is that your end product doesn't look a lot like the 3e or 4e artificer except in narrative and concept. You get a "playtest sorcerer" situation where what you make is interesting, but it's not really true to the play experience of the older versions of the character type. But if the narrative and concept is more important than the 3e or 4e mechanics, that'll do it. [/QUOTE]
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WotC Survey Result: Classes OK, Eberron Needs Work
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