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Would Sub-class Feats Solve a Problem? (Is there a problem?)
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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 7180618" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>At what number of unique abilities do you give a sub-class before it basically turns into a new base class?</p><p></p><p>Aren't you just splitting hairs at that point? If you get unique sub-class abilities at say every-other-level... you basically have turned it *into* a new base class. I mean, there are classes in the game right now that share some mechanics (all the spellcaster classes share the casting slot mechanic, rogues and bards share Expertise, fighters/pallys/rangers share the Fighting Styles mechanic). Thus the differentiation between a "class" and a "sub-class" is just the numbers of unique mechanics.</p><p></p><p>If you're going to give the Thief more unique mechanics and the Assassin more unique mechanics, and then end up sharing the same say 5 mechanics... whether you call them "base classes" or "sub-classes" is pretty much academic at that point.</p><p></p><p>But again... none of this changes the fact that if you are looking for "distinctiveness" in a sub-class compared to another sub-class in the same base class... mechanics are the poorer way of doing it compared to actually roleplaying the differences. I mean heck... how did people make their Fighters distinctive back in 1E when the only difference between two fighters was the weapon they used? It was entirely on how they roleplayed them. And the case is the same today. If (general) you find no distinction between playing a Thief versus playing a Mastermind versus playing a Swashbuckler... it's because you aren't <em>playing</em> a Thief versus <em>playing</em> a Mastermind versus <em>playing</em> a Swashbuckler. You're instead just looking at the numbers on your character sheet and saying "Hrm. I keep rolling the same type of dice at the same time for the same reasons each time I play a different type of Rogue, except for these couple specific times when I don't." And unfortunately for you... just adding in a couple MORE specific times where you'll roll different dice for different reasons is not going to solve your problem over the long-term. Because you're going to roll THOSE dice enough times over the course of your gaming life that their distinctiveness is going to wash away just like your current sub-classes have washed away their distinctiveness in dice rolling.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 7180618, member: 7006"] At what number of unique abilities do you give a sub-class before it basically turns into a new base class? Aren't you just splitting hairs at that point? If you get unique sub-class abilities at say every-other-level... you basically have turned it *into* a new base class. I mean, there are classes in the game right now that share some mechanics (all the spellcaster classes share the casting slot mechanic, rogues and bards share Expertise, fighters/pallys/rangers share the Fighting Styles mechanic). Thus the differentiation between a "class" and a "sub-class" is just the numbers of unique mechanics. If you're going to give the Thief more unique mechanics and the Assassin more unique mechanics, and then end up sharing the same say 5 mechanics... whether you call them "base classes" or "sub-classes" is pretty much academic at that point. But again... none of this changes the fact that if you are looking for "distinctiveness" in a sub-class compared to another sub-class in the same base class... mechanics are the poorer way of doing it compared to actually roleplaying the differences. I mean heck... how did people make their Fighters distinctive back in 1E when the only difference between two fighters was the weapon they used? It was entirely on how they roleplayed them. And the case is the same today. If (general) you find no distinction between playing a Thief versus playing a Mastermind versus playing a Swashbuckler... it's because you aren't [I]playing[/I] a Thief versus [I]playing[/I] a Mastermind versus [I]playing[/I] a Swashbuckler. You're instead just looking at the numbers on your character sheet and saying "Hrm. I keep rolling the same type of dice at the same time for the same reasons each time I play a different type of Rogue, except for these couple specific times when I don't." And unfortunately for you... just adding in a couple MORE specific times where you'll roll different dice for different reasons is not going to solve your problem over the long-term. Because you're going to roll THOSE dice enough times over the course of your gaming life that their distinctiveness is going to wash away just like your current sub-classes have washed away their distinctiveness in dice rolling. [/QUOTE]
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