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Would you allow this paladin in your game? (new fiction added 11/11/08)
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<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1951719" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>No. For several reasons.</p><p></p><p>First, I don't buy the idea that these "little sins" that are rapidly becoming not only socially accepted but even passe are insignificant. Nor do I buy the idea that these are victimless crimes. Write the story a little differently where instead of clean-scrubbed sluts who do it for fun (like the porn sites would have you believe), the prostitutes are abused, exploited, and trapped in a cycle of dependency if not actually enslaved. Then, when you write about Sir Cedric leaving the room and the guard checking the lock on the door so that the girl won't try to escape or the madame taking the money that they need to buy that cure disease (Sir Cedric doesn't need to worry about that, of course, but they do) so that they have to choose between curing themselves and feeding their children, and I'm betting a lot of the "yes" votes switch to no. </p><p></p><p>"But Sir Cedric only frequents the happy brothels pictured in porn flicks and his prostitutes are straight out of Pretty Woman." He has money to pay for the ones who are always pretty (and young) and never diseased and whose life is made fairly good by that money. (Or what they see of it). And what of the young knight Magnus or his squire Erik? Observing that it is acceptable for the great Sir Cedric, will they, who lack his money and discernment, stick to the Hollywood brothels or will they buy what they can afford and take the cheap and sleazy turn into the Thailand style sex slavery. A paladin is supposed to set an example. He is responsible, not only for the direct, but for some of the predictable indirect consequences of his actions.</p><p></p><p>In some ways, his drinking is even worse. If Sir Cedric is really into the hedonistic aspect of drinking, there's no question about it: sooner or later, he's going to get falling down drunk and puke his guts out in the alley, and sooner or later, he's going to get into a drunken brawl. </p><p></p><p>The second reason which is equally important is that Sir Cedric has the wrong attitude.</p><p></p><p>He obviously thinks that he's better than everyone else and that the sacrifices he makes put him above the rules for ordinary people. "I think you might agree that I've earned it. And if you don't, well then you can just go **** yourself," is the speech of a fighter (or even a blackguard) and not a paladin. The whole concept of a paladin is that they exemplify the virtues--not that they get a free pass for their vices because they fight to protect people.</p><p></p><p>Furthermore, Sir Cedric, as depicted here, has the wrong perspective on his role. His attitude might be summed up with "if it feels good, do it because, if I'm lucky, I'm going to die tomorrow." If he's a character in Aliens, he's Hudson. He's given up on fighting the little evil because it's pointless, starting with the little evils inside of him. If he's entitled to get falling down drunk, sleep around, patronize prostitutes, and angrily cuss out the squire sent to find him, then one might also presume that, regardless of the moral status of his sluttiness and drinking, he also believes himself entitled to take out his anger on the little people. After all, we just watched him do it. </p><p></p><p>Third, if we start with the virtue count, this Sir Cedric, as depicted doesn't have enough.</p><p>Classical virtues: Justice (maybe--though his sense of entitlement mitigates against this), temperence (definitely not), courage (to some degree--we can presume physical courage, but his attitude towards life seems to spring from the opposite).</p><p>Christian virtues: Faith (maybe--but he doesn't seem to have confidence in ultimate victory), Hope (not a bit of it), Love (he's got the formula down--giving his body to be burned, so to speak, but he seems to think he's entitled to treat other people any d$%* way he feels like), Humility (definitely not--he thinks his sacrifices make him better than everyone else and entitle him to operate as if he were above their petty restrictions).</p><p>Sir Cedric can only function as a paragon of virtue if you're willing to pare the virtues down to risking your life for others on the field of battle... and being good at it. But if that's the criterion for being a paladin, then the are very few warrior types that wouldn't make the cut.</p><p></p><p>All told, an interesting character. But not a paladin of any kind.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 1951719, member: 3146"] No. For several reasons. First, I don't buy the idea that these "little sins" that are rapidly becoming not only socially accepted but even passe are insignificant. Nor do I buy the idea that these are victimless crimes. Write the story a little differently where instead of clean-scrubbed sluts who do it for fun (like the porn sites would have you believe), the prostitutes are abused, exploited, and trapped in a cycle of dependency if not actually enslaved. Then, when you write about Sir Cedric leaving the room and the guard checking the lock on the door so that the girl won't try to escape or the madame taking the money that they need to buy that cure disease (Sir Cedric doesn't need to worry about that, of course, but they do) so that they have to choose between curing themselves and feeding their children, and I'm betting a lot of the "yes" votes switch to no. "But Sir Cedric only frequents the happy brothels pictured in porn flicks and his prostitutes are straight out of Pretty Woman." He has money to pay for the ones who are always pretty (and young) and never diseased and whose life is made fairly good by that money. (Or what they see of it). And what of the young knight Magnus or his squire Erik? Observing that it is acceptable for the great Sir Cedric, will they, who lack his money and discernment, stick to the Hollywood brothels or will they buy what they can afford and take the cheap and sleazy turn into the Thailand style sex slavery. A paladin is supposed to set an example. He is responsible, not only for the direct, but for some of the predictable indirect consequences of his actions. In some ways, his drinking is even worse. If Sir Cedric is really into the hedonistic aspect of drinking, there's no question about it: sooner or later, he's going to get falling down drunk and puke his guts out in the alley, and sooner or later, he's going to get into a drunken brawl. The second reason which is equally important is that Sir Cedric has the wrong attitude. He obviously thinks that he's better than everyone else and that the sacrifices he makes put him above the rules for ordinary people. "I think you might agree that I've earned it. And if you don't, well then you can just go **** yourself," is the speech of a fighter (or even a blackguard) and not a paladin. The whole concept of a paladin is that they exemplify the virtues--not that they get a free pass for their vices because they fight to protect people. Furthermore, Sir Cedric, as depicted here, has the wrong perspective on his role. His attitude might be summed up with "if it feels good, do it because, if I'm lucky, I'm going to die tomorrow." If he's a character in Aliens, he's Hudson. He's given up on fighting the little evil because it's pointless, starting with the little evils inside of him. If he's entitled to get falling down drunk, sleep around, patronize prostitutes, and angrily cuss out the squire sent to find him, then one might also presume that, regardless of the moral status of his sluttiness and drinking, he also believes himself entitled to take out his anger on the little people. After all, we just watched him do it. Third, if we start with the virtue count, this Sir Cedric, as depicted doesn't have enough. Classical virtues: Justice (maybe--though his sense of entitlement mitigates against this), temperence (definitely not), courage (to some degree--we can presume physical courage, but his attitude towards life seems to spring from the opposite). Christian virtues: Faith (maybe--but he doesn't seem to have confidence in ultimate victory), Hope (not a bit of it), Love (he's got the formula down--giving his body to be burned, so to speak, but he seems to think he's entitled to treat other people any d$%* way he feels like), Humility (definitely not--he thinks his sacrifices make him better than everyone else and entitle him to operate as if he were above their petty restrictions). Sir Cedric can only function as a paragon of virtue if you're willing to pare the virtues down to risking your life for others on the field of battle... and being good at it. But if that's the criterion for being a paladin, then the are very few warrior types that wouldn't make the cut. All told, an interesting character. But not a paladin of any kind. [/QUOTE]
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Would you allow this paladin in your game? (new fiction added 11/11/08)
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