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Would you allow this paladin in your game? (new fiction added 11/11/08)
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<blockquote data-quote="fusangite" data-source="post: 1958820" data-attributes="member: 7240"><p>Sigil, </p><p></p><p>I generally agree with your idea that Magnus's reactions indicate a real problem but I thought, for fun, I would poke some holes in the argument.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are universalizing the teachings of "the priests" perhaps inappropriately. Why would there be priestly unanimity here? Within many religions in the past, clergy was factionalized or locally distinct so I don't buy that because one set of priests have a particular standards that these standards would be the universal standards of the faith.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Two problems here: (a) this rests on the supposition of a monolithic priesthood; (b) why can't they also originate from ascetics, lay leaders and holy warriors? In medieval Europe, often the teachings of mendicant friars were more respected and received with greater authority than those of secular clergy whose job it actually was to communicate the beliefs to the people.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It depends on how much this god micro-manages and how many manifestations of the godhead there are. Look at Saint Paul's letter to the Romans (<em>Romans</em>) for how, within the same faith, two distinct groups can be governed by two distinct sets of rules. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed. But what evidence do we have (a) that there are violations of the code governing Cedric going on, and (b) that the code that governs him is created by priests and not be theologians, ascetics or other holy warriors?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>House of cards here I'm afraid. I much prefer my model for not letting him do this stuff.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think I've shown perfectly credible alternatives such as a non-monolithic priesthood, multiple types of worshippers, a sovereign order of holy warriors or one allied with a group other than the secular clergy, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not at all. Look at the Saint Paul model or, more recently and up to the present, the rules for married clergy within different parts of the Roman Catholic world. For a non-Ukranian Catholic priest to marry, it is grounds for being defrocked and possibly excommunicated yet there is no loss of authority for Ukranian priests. Similarly, Anglican priests who convert to Catholicism are allowed to stay married with no consequences.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="fusangite, post: 1958820, member: 7240"] Sigil, I generally agree with your idea that Magnus's reactions indicate a real problem but I thought, for fun, I would poke some holes in the argument. You are universalizing the teachings of "the priests" perhaps inappropriately. Why would there be priestly unanimity here? Within many religions in the past, clergy was factionalized or locally distinct so I don't buy that because one set of priests have a particular standards that these standards would be the universal standards of the faith. Two problems here: (a) this rests on the supposition of a monolithic priesthood; (b) why can't they also originate from ascetics, lay leaders and holy warriors? In medieval Europe, often the teachings of mendicant friars were more respected and received with greater authority than those of secular clergy whose job it actually was to communicate the beliefs to the people. It depends on how much this god micro-manages and how many manifestations of the godhead there are. Look at Saint Paul's letter to the Romans ([i]Romans[/i]) for how, within the same faith, two distinct groups can be governed by two distinct sets of rules. Agreed. Agreed. But what evidence do we have (a) that there are violations of the code governing Cedric going on, and (b) that the code that governs him is created by priests and not be theologians, ascetics or other holy warriors? House of cards here I'm afraid. I much prefer my model for not letting him do this stuff. I think I've shown perfectly credible alternatives such as a non-monolithic priesthood, multiple types of worshippers, a sovereign order of holy warriors or one allied with a group other than the secular clergy, etc. Not at all. Look at the Saint Paul model or, more recently and up to the present, the rules for married clergy within different parts of the Roman Catholic world. For a non-Ukranian Catholic priest to marry, it is grounds for being defrocked and possibly excommunicated yet there is no loss of authority for Ukranian priests. Similarly, Anglican priests who convert to Catholicism are allowed to stay married with no consequences. [/QUOTE]
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