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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7462869" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Someone (maybe [MENTION=6795602]FrogReaver[/MENTION]?) upthread posited that the suggestion in the OP was as absurd as a fighter declaring that s/he turns invisible. My response to that was that <em>a fighter turning invisible</em> equals <em>making a DEX/Stealth check</em>. In 4e that is literally true - a successful Stealth check makes you invisible. (As per the rules that I have already quoted twice upthread.)</p><p></p><p>In 5e it is not literally true, but the effect of being hidden is that you go unnoticed, which in a wide range of scenarios achieves the same outcome as turning invisible. (Not all - bags of flour are better for spotting people who are using an illusion effect to be unseen; peeking around a corner is better for spotting a person using the furniture to be unseen; using a Helm of Telepathy is better for spotting a person using a charm spell, like the 4e Eyebite, to be unseen.)</p><p></p><p>I also made the point that, in 4e, there are utility powers that a rogue can use which have their effect described as "you are invisible", and presumably in 5e the same thing would be done by way of a DEX/Stealth check. (I am assuming that the whole point of dropping utility powers in 5e was that it's ability/stealth check rules were flexible enough to emulate all of 4e and more. Otherwise rogues, fighters and other non-casters seem a bit hosed.)</p><p></p><p>Given that (i) you are just wrong about 4e, and (ii) you intervened in a discussion I was having with another poster, about how a fighter might become unseen, maybe the shoe is on the other foot?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7462869, member: 42582"] Someone (maybe [MENTION=6795602]FrogReaver[/MENTION]?) upthread posited that the suggestion in the OP was as absurd as a fighter declaring that s/he turns invisible. My response to that was that [I]a fighter turning invisible[/I] equals [I]making a DEX/Stealth check[/I]. In 4e that is literally true - a successful Stealth check makes you invisible. (As per the rules that I have already quoted twice upthread.) In 5e it is not literally true, but the effect of being hidden is that you go unnoticed, which in a wide range of scenarios achieves the same outcome as turning invisible. (Not all - bags of flour are better for spotting people who are using an illusion effect to be unseen; peeking around a corner is better for spotting a person using the furniture to be unseen; using a Helm of Telepathy is better for spotting a person using a charm spell, like the 4e Eyebite, to be unseen.) I also made the point that, in 4e, there are utility powers that a rogue can use which have their effect described as "you are invisible", and presumably in 5e the same thing would be done by way of a DEX/Stealth check. (I am assuming that the whole point of dropping utility powers in 5e was that it's ability/stealth check rules were flexible enough to emulate all of 4e and more. Otherwise rogues, fighters and other non-casters seem a bit hosed.) Given that (i) you are just wrong about 4e, and (ii) you intervened in a discussion I was having with another poster, about how a fighter might become unseen, maybe the shoe is on the other foot? [/QUOTE]
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