Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Would you allow this?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7464156" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>And if X is hidden from Y, then X <em>can't be seen</em> by Y's normal vision.</p><p></p><p>You keep talking about Y defeating X's cover (by "walking around the box X is hiding behind") - but doing that means that X is no longer hidden from Y, which of course means that (assuming that X has no other source of invisibility) X is no longer invisible to Y, and hence it is no longer true that Y cannot see X with normal vision.</p><p></p><p>There is no contradiction or ambiguity here. The interesting questions in 4e generally are not about how basic hiding or invisilbility works, but rather adjudication of the fiction. Eg suppose that a person using the Invisibility spell (who is thereby eligible to make a Stealth check, because enjoying total concealment) is doused by an opponent in dust and flour - what bonus does that give that opponent to his/her Perception check to notice the invisible person?</p><p></p><p>Or, suppose that a warlock successfully attacks an opponent with Eyebite, thereby becoming invisible to that opponent by way of a Charm effect. What is the DC for an ally's Diplomacy check (or some other check?) to break that ensorcellment, thereby rendering the warlock visible once again to the opponent?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7464156, member: 42582"] And if X is hidden from Y, then X [I]can't be seen[/I] by Y's normal vision. You keep talking about Y defeating X's cover (by "walking around the box X is hiding behind") - but doing that means that X is no longer hidden from Y, which of course means that (assuming that X has no other source of invisibility) X is no longer invisible to Y, and hence it is no longer true that Y cannot see X with normal vision. There is no contradiction or ambiguity here. The interesting questions in 4e generally are not about how basic hiding or invisilbility works, but rather adjudication of the fiction. Eg suppose that a person using the Invisibility spell (who is thereby eligible to make a Stealth check, because enjoying total concealment) is doused by an opponent in dust and flour - what bonus does that give that opponent to his/her Perception check to notice the invisible person? Or, suppose that a warlock successfully attacks an opponent with Eyebite, thereby becoming invisible to that opponent by way of a Charm effect. What is the DC for an ally's Diplomacy check (or some other check?) to break that ensorcellment, thereby rendering the warlock visible once again to the opponent? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Would you allow this?
Top