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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7464214" data-attributes="member: 23751"><p>Horse pucky! </p><p></p><p>From perception: "Opposed Check: Perception vs. Stealth <strong>when trying to spot or hear a creature using Stealth</strong>. Your check might be <strong>modified by distance</strong> or <strong>if you’re listening through a door or a wall </strong>(see the table)." </p><p></p><p>From skill training: "Training in a skill means that you have some combination of <strong>formal instruction, practical experience, and natural aptitude using that skill.</strong>"</p><p></p><p>From using skill: "When you use a skill, you make a skill check.<strong> This check represents your training, your natural talent (your ability modifier), your overall experience (one half your level), other applicable factors (relevant bonuses), and sheer luck (a die roll)</strong>."</p><p></p><p>Those are all in fiction things the PC is doing. Hell, using skills explicitly says it represents what the character is doing in the fiction. Succeeding at the perception check is in fact(no matter how much you protest otherwise) an in fiction example of the PC seeing the hider with normal vision.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, and there is a single reason why that occurs. It's because that hider is seen with normal vision. No normal vision seeing the hider, the hider remains hidden. You refuse to accept the proper order of events, insisting(absurdly I might add) that the hider becomes unhidden before he is even seen.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 7464214, member: 23751"] Horse pucky! From perception: "Opposed Check: Perception vs. Stealth [B]when trying to spot or hear a creature using Stealth[/B]. Your check might be [B]modified by distance[/B] or [B]if you’re listening through a door or a wall [/B](see the table)." From skill training: "Training in a skill means that you have some combination of [B]formal instruction, practical experience, and natural aptitude using that skill.[/B]" From using skill: "When you use a skill, you make a skill check.[B] This check represents your training, your natural talent (your ability modifier), your overall experience (one half your level), other applicable factors (relevant bonuses), and sheer luck (a die roll)[/B]." Those are all in fiction things the PC is doing. Hell, using skills explicitly says it represents what the character is doing in the fiction. Succeeding at the perception check is in fact(no matter how much you protest otherwise) an in fiction example of the PC seeing the hider with normal vision. Yes, and there is a single reason why that occurs. It's because that hider is seen with normal vision. No normal vision seeing the hider, the hider remains hidden. You refuse to accept the proper order of events, insisting(absurdly I might add) that the hider becomes unhidden before he is even seen. [/QUOTE]
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