Wound System - Inspired by Shadowdark

[JohnSnow]

Okay, so I've been kicking around the idea of a home-brew wound system that would work for Shadowdark, 5e, or many other editions of D&D.

My buddy and I were having a discussion about various mechanics for damage tracking and noted that the nice part about Hit Points is that they're simple, you know where you stand, and they work. The downside is that they feel pretty abstract. So, inspired by that, I have thought up an alternate "Wound system" that can be "bolted on" to a Hit Point system.

a.Hit Points work as normal in 5e until you hit zero. If an attack drops you to Zero hit points (or would send you negative), you are now "Wounded." A "wounded" character makes a Constitution Check (DC set by GM based on what's reasonable in your system). If they fail, they are now incapacitated and bleeding out. Standard death save rules now apply. If the character passes, they remain conscious and can continue fighting, but they have NO hit points. A character who is struck by an attack at this point receives another Wound. At this point the character is "Seriously Wounded" and the save is repeated (at a higher DC). If they pass, they get to keep going. My brain says there should be 2 more levels: "Critically Wounded" and "Mortally Wounded." A mortally wounded character is incapacitated, and only has time for last words and tearful goodbyes.

This whole system was inspired by too many viewings of Boromir's death scene from The Fellowship of the Ring, which I feel we really ought to be able to emulate.

So that's the kernel of my idea. I didn't include any penalties at the different wound levels, because I didn't want a death spiral. The PC can always opt to stay out of the fight, thus avoiding the risk of the escalating DCs. Or they can try to tough it out and make a heroic last stand.

My thought was that this could work well with a system where Hit Points are a bit lower, but only represent luck and fatigue and therefore fully recover after each fight. Hit Dice become unnecessary, and how long it takes to recover Wounds would be a table-to-table decision. The idea was that, even if the wounds linger, the refreshed hit points give a character a buffer to a death spiral, and put the decision to continue taking risks into the player's hands.

Anyway, that's the idea. I'm floating it on the Shadowdark Discord Houserules Channel, and at least a few people there seem intrigued. What do y'all think?

 

[Enrahim2]

You really like your death buffers dont you? First a hp buffer, then a wounds buffer and then a death save buffer. The somewhat new thing here compared to other shield/hull based buffer systems I have seen is that you already at the wound stage essentially throw away the entire damage roll system. The save while wounded part seem more like a sort of ekstra death save.

So as this appear to be the main thing that set this appart to me, could you reason why you think this is better than the more common slow to heal wound points system you start chipping at once hp is gone. Or alternatively get rid of the entire damage system as many systems have done, and just count number of hits also in the "HP buffer" range?

I have to say that I am strongly in favor of systems that puts characters in a situation they have "lost", and still get a chance to get away. However I don't think this system provides that. If a character enters the wounded zone, the group is still about as stuck from running away, as if the character had fallen unconcious. The character could fall unconcious at them at any unopportune point during the flight, leaving the party in a potentially worse tactical position, and one offensive party member down compared to if they just stay and fight.

In other words, this seem too likely to create Boromir scenes - party doing a foolishly heroic last stand despite the odds clearly not being in their favor. You still need to split the party in advance to avoid TPK

(Encounter balance also can become a lot harder due to the increased random swinginess in that the first "death save" not only brings an already unconcious character closer to death, but also determines if they get a full turn of actions or not. This make this save disproportionately important in determining the overall feel of challenge of the encounter)

 

[JohnSnow]

You really like your death buffers dont you? First a hp buffer, then a wounds buffer and then a death save buffer. The somewhat new thing here compared to other shield/hull based buffer systems I have seen is that you already at the wound stage essentially throw away the entire damage roll system. The save while wounded part seem more like a sort of ekstra death save.

As a system, the attraction of hit points is that they’re a combination of luck and fatigue that provides a little bit of plot armor for characters facing dangerous situations. If the pool is too small, we have a problem. If the pool is too big, combat either feels like a slog, or we crank up the numbers so it’s not (see high level 5e), which defeats the purpose.

That’s exactly what it is. More specifically, it gives the player a choice to continue to press on while wounded. It’s more to do than lay down and bleed, but it’s risky. That feels heroic.

So as this appear to be the main thing that set this appart to me, could you reason why you think this is better than the more common slow to heal wound points system you start chipping at once hp is gone. Or alternatively get rid of the entire damage system as many systems have done, and just count number of hits also in the "HP buffer" range?

Because once the plot armor is gone, a person can die if they get stabbed with a dagger. Yes, this system is not dissimilar from Vitality and Wound Points, but I started asking myself what the point of a big pool of the latter is. Hit point damage is random in part because we’re modeling something abstract.

IMO, it’s pointless to keep tracking a pile of Wound Points. I don’t need two pools to track, just: did they get hit? Wound.

I have to say that I am strongly in favor of systems that puts characters in a situation they have "lost", and still get a chance to get away. However I don't think this system provides that. If a character enters the wounded zone, the group is still about as stuck from running away, as if the character had fallen unconcious. The character could fall unconcious at them at any unopportune point during the flight, leaving the party in a potentially worse tactical position, and one offensive party member down compared to if they just stay and fight.

Ah, perhaps I wasn’t clear. Unlike death saves, the save mechanic isn’t “per round.”Once it’s made, you don’t need to make another until you’re wounded again.

In other words, this seem too likely to create Boromir scenes - party doing a foolishly heroic last stand despite the odds clearly not being in their favor. You still need to split the party in advance to avoid TPK

(Encounter balance also can become a lot harder due to the increased random swinginess in that the first "death save" not only brings an already unconcious character closer to death, but also determines if they get a full turn of actions or not. This make this save disproportionately important in determining the overall feel of challenge of the encounter)

Foolish decisions should cause TPKs.

If a single member of the party is “wounded,” maybe it makes sense for them to fight on, but withdraw and plink arrows from the back rank. If a second does, I’m pretty sure that’s when the party should turn tail and run. And I don’t see how it’s more swingy than “both could be incapacitated and bleeding out.”

Thanks for the input though. Gives me stuff to think about.

 

[JohnSnow]

Separately, I loathe wound systems that are frankensteined back into a functional adventuring system by healing magic.

A 1 or 2 hp character is a dead man walking. Period. I don’t like doing that to my players.

 

[Enrahim2]

Ah, perhaps I wasn’t clear. Unlike death saves, the save mechanic isn’t “per round.”Once it’s made, you don’t need to make another until you’re wounded again.

Ah, I see! In that case my main concern is void. I think there are a lot of swinginess tied to that roll still, but at leat the roll isn't as common.

Indeed it seem to me more tempting than the traditional wound systems, but I still think I would like to see the damage roll being relevant. Like add damage taken/5 to the save dc. And possibly halve the hp in order to avoid overly extending the combat length.

 

[Asabmow]

I really like this! I will try it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Okay, so I've been kicking around the idea of a home-brew wound system that would work for Shadowdark, 5e, or many other editions of D&D.

My buddy and I were having a discussion about various mechanics for damage tracking and noted that the nice part about Hit Points is that they're simple, you know where you stand, and they work. The downside is that they feel pretty abstract. So, inspired by that, I have thought up an alternate "Wound system" that can be "bolted on" to a Hit Point system.

a.Hit Points work as normal in 5e until you hit zero. If an attack drops you to Zero hit points (or would send you negative), you are now "Wounded." A "wounded" character makes a Constitution Check (DC set by GM based on what's reasonable in your system). If they fail, they are now incapacitated and bleeding out. Standard death save rules now apply. If the character passes, they remain conscious and can continue fighting, but they have NO hit points. A character who is struck by an attack at this point receives another Wound. At this point the character is "Seriously Wounded" and the save is repeated (at a higher DC). If they pass, they get to keep going. My brain says there should be 2 more levels: "Critically Wounded" and "Mortally Wounded." A mortally wounded character is incapacitated, and only has time for last words and tearful goodbyes.

This whole system was inspired by too many viewings of Boromir's death scene from The Fellowship of the Ring, which I feel we really ought to be able to emulate.

So that's the kernel of my idea. I didn't include any penalties at the different wound levels, because I didn't want a death spiral. The PC can always opt to stay out of the fight, thus avoiding the risk of the escalating DCs. Or they can try to tough it out and make a heroic last stand.

My thought was that this could work well with a system where Hit Points are a bit lower, but only represent luck and fatigue and therefore fully recover after each fight. Hit Dice become unnecessary, and how long it takes to recover Wounds would be a table-to-table decision. The idea was that, even if the wounds linger, the refreshed hit points give a character a buffer to a death spiral, and put the decision to continue taking risks into the player's hands.

Anyway, that's the idea. I'm floating it on the Shadowdark Discord Houserules Channel, and at least a few people there seem intrigued. What do y'all think?

Do the wounds count as failed death saves? Otherwise, the whole whack-a-mole thing just starts up whenever you fail your save, instead of right away.