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www.play-board-games.com blogs about How DnD 4th Edition is like a board game
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<blockquote data-quote="Silverblade The Ench" data-source="post: 5236952" data-attributes="member: 19083"><p>I've played D&D from the beginning with miniatures, plastic soldiers iirc for first go (1st ed).</p><p>I made a grid board from two pieces of plywood (joined with brass hinges) with green flock glued to it (for grass) </p><p>(hey, they 80s were rough, I couldn't afford the books at first had to surreptously copy rules from the 1st ed PHB/DMG/MM down onto paper in the big toy store that had them)</p><p></p><p>so I'm used to always using minis, I wouldn't want NOT to use 'em.</p><p>therefore, folk comparing 4th ed to a board game I find ridiculous. </p><p>I adore how the game has changed so it's no longer <em>"stand toe to toe and play whack a rat</em>"...that annoyed the HELL out of me. Nobody ever fights like that in RL. Position, bull rushes, throws etc are all vital.</p><p>So as DM I would describe such, but I couldn't actually <em>do </em>them on the <em>table </em>(as there were no rules for such etc)</p><p></p><p>Note I don't hate 1st or 2nd ed, I loved them, and still have much fondess for 'em <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>D&D has two aspects: Roleplaying, and combat. While the former is very subjective, the latter does need more tight rules.</p><p>2nd ed added in some rules for social interactions, but very poorly, 3rd ed improved it HUGELY but the skill system was too cumbersome and 4th ed feels better to me (Diplomacy, Intimidate, Bluff, Insight, that works a treat. Also possible knowledge skills, Stealth).</p><p></p><p>As time has went on, liek any systems, flaws and solutions, plus new ideas, come up.</p><p>If 4th ed pinched ideas from video games and board games...so what? They pinched from D&D, lol.</p><p></p><p>D&D Encounters and delves I can see are great ways to have relaxed play, because getting a group together nowadays is hard. I'm not keen on the non-RP way they push the game though but can understand why, as RP relies on good players/DM, and <em>THAT IS NEVER ASSURED TO BE THE CASE!</em></p><p>emphasis is required there. It's very important.</p><p></p><p>If you go to a chess tournament, you know the rules will be adhered to strictly, thus allowing fairness.</p><p>But how many DM's are rookies, don't realize things, or are plain rotten?</p><p>Yeah I'm sure you all know one...hehe</p><p></p><p>So D&D needs clear rules whether some folk like it or not.</p><p></p><p>hey I didn't understand the spell memorization system for months after we started! there was nobody to explain it to, no internet, not even Dragon magazine in the "<em>cultural sceptic tank"</em> I live in <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>Compare the rules etc from 1st, to 4th ed on the grid map itself.</p><p>Was facing introduced in 2nd ed? cna't recall (hey was long time ago <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />)</p><p>1st ed used "Inches" for all range/movement, which is really not very sensible..."A dragon flies 12 inches..." ahem <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p>one day it should be all metric (2 metre, 6' square?) so it's universally clear.</p><p></p><p>better rules on the table also mean easier computer conversion and this is VITAL for D&D to SURVIVE. Sorry folk who really want to pull the covers over their ears and ignore reality <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p>but for D&D to live on, it needs new players, which means youngsters, which means *computer* versions. It is absolutely essential.</p><p></p><p>go compare Pool of Radiance, to Temple of elemental Evil on the PC.</p><p>I loved both. TOEE (when patched) is a fantastic game.</p><p>D&D has been badly let dow in last 10 years by not having enough <em>mainstream </em>computer presence, except the Neverwinter Nights games.</p><p></p><p>I suspect/hope that recent stuff with Atari vs HASBRo is about yanking the licence off that deadbeat, and creating something with the appeal of WoW, or Modern Warfare...so that 60 years form now, there will be a huge fan base still loving this game, or it will be *DEAD* when we pass on.</p><p></p><p>Sorry for dragging it off topic, but that was part of thread I had on "grognard good/grognard bad".</p><p>"Old school" is cool, and hey such folk are vital in any genre as a back bone <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p>but you need new blood. And things change. I want D&D to be here for generations to come, not just me.</p><p></p><p>So...D&D as effcient on the game board, also lets them make conversions like the Ravenloft board game, which I hope attracts more players, not just cheers us aging fogeys up <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Silverblade The Ench, post: 5236952, member: 19083"] I've played D&D from the beginning with miniatures, plastic soldiers iirc for first go (1st ed). I made a grid board from two pieces of plywood (joined with brass hinges) with green flock glued to it (for grass) (hey, they 80s were rough, I couldn't afford the books at first had to surreptously copy rules from the 1st ed PHB/DMG/MM down onto paper in the big toy store that had them) so I'm used to always using minis, I wouldn't want NOT to use 'em. therefore, folk comparing 4th ed to a board game I find ridiculous. I adore how the game has changed so it's no longer [I]"stand toe to toe and play whack a rat[/I]"...that annoyed the HELL out of me. Nobody ever fights like that in RL. Position, bull rushes, throws etc are all vital. So as DM I would describe such, but I couldn't actually [I]do [/I]them on the [I]table [/I](as there were no rules for such etc) Note I don't hate 1st or 2nd ed, I loved them, and still have much fondess for 'em :) D&D has two aspects: Roleplaying, and combat. While the former is very subjective, the latter does need more tight rules. 2nd ed added in some rules for social interactions, but very poorly, 3rd ed improved it HUGELY but the skill system was too cumbersome and 4th ed feels better to me (Diplomacy, Intimidate, Bluff, Insight, that works a treat. Also possible knowledge skills, Stealth). As time has went on, liek any systems, flaws and solutions, plus new ideas, come up. If 4th ed pinched ideas from video games and board games...so what? They pinched from D&D, lol. D&D Encounters and delves I can see are great ways to have relaxed play, because getting a group together nowadays is hard. I'm not keen on the non-RP way they push the game though but can understand why, as RP relies on good players/DM, and [I]THAT IS NEVER ASSURED TO BE THE CASE![/I] emphasis is required there. It's very important. If you go to a chess tournament, you know the rules will be adhered to strictly, thus allowing fairness. But how many DM's are rookies, don't realize things, or are plain rotten? Yeah I'm sure you all know one...hehe So D&D needs clear rules whether some folk like it or not. hey I didn't understand the spell memorization system for months after we started! there was nobody to explain it to, no internet, not even Dragon magazine in the "[I]cultural sceptic tank"[/I] I live in :p Compare the rules etc from 1st, to 4th ed on the grid map itself. Was facing introduced in 2nd ed? cna't recall (hey was long time ago :p) 1st ed used "Inches" for all range/movement, which is really not very sensible..."A dragon flies 12 inches..." ahem ;) one day it should be all metric (2 metre, 6' square?) so it's universally clear. better rules on the table also mean easier computer conversion and this is VITAL for D&D to SURVIVE. Sorry folk who really want to pull the covers over their ears and ignore reality ;) but for D&D to live on, it needs new players, which means youngsters, which means *computer* versions. It is absolutely essential. go compare Pool of Radiance, to Temple of elemental Evil on the PC. I loved both. TOEE (when patched) is a fantastic game. D&D has been badly let dow in last 10 years by not having enough [I]mainstream [/I]computer presence, except the Neverwinter Nights games. I suspect/hope that recent stuff with Atari vs HASBRo is about yanking the licence off that deadbeat, and creating something with the appeal of WoW, or Modern Warfare...so that 60 years form now, there will be a huge fan base still loving this game, or it will be *DEAD* when we pass on. Sorry for dragging it off topic, but that was part of thread I had on "grognard good/grognard bad". "Old school" is cool, and hey such folk are vital in any genre as a back bone :) but you need new blood. And things change. I want D&D to be here for generations to come, not just me. So...D&D as effcient on the game board, also lets them make conversions like the Ravenloft board game, which I hope attracts more players, not just cheers us aging fogeys up ;) [/QUOTE]
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