Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Xanathar's, Wizards, and FLGSes Charging For Playspace
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="scottaroberts" data-source="post: 7279003" data-attributes="member: 6802666"><p>First, apologies: though I'm not new to the Intarwebs, quoting multiple posts in one reply is beyond my knowledge with this forum software.</p><p></p><p>I truly appreciate people who support their FLGS via MSRP buying of products in the store. There just aren't enough of them. In fact, I've bought the arguments I hear from those who *don't* pay MSRP while trying to convince people to do so. I find it akin to accepting charity: you know, and I know, that you could get that product 40% cheaper. In essence you're donating money to me. It feels as if I am ripping people off or depending entirely on their goodwill and, well, businesses don't really succeed if they're relying on people to realize they should *not* take the bargain offered elsewhere.</p><p></p><p></p><p> [MENTION=93444]shidaku[/MENTION]: I don't really expect people who can host at home to pay for space. The frequency of purchase of D&D accessories, and their price points, does not make enough money to keep a space afloat in and of itself (although in a larger store, cross-gaming customers can buy enough regularly to keep up the space).</p><p></p><p> [MENTION=6685730]DMMike[/MENTION]: The gaming cafe model is an excellent one--but it's also much more expensive to set up, run, etc...and the best use of such a space's appeal is not to draw an RPG crowd at all; if I were to do it, it'd be pretty much all boardgames and directed towards a dating/youth market looking for something different to do. But that's just me.</p><p></p><p> [MENTION=18182]Dire Bare[/MENTION]: I love hearing about successful stores, but I'll point a few things out: first, you're in Idaho; rural areas and the midwest (due to a lack of competition for entertainment dollars) tend to do quite a lot better than places in more urban areas from my knowledge. Second, they make their money from CCGs and minis games primarily. Third, you just said they lost your business because the employees screwed up--a problem that Amazon does not have. Lastly, you *have to* "care whether they're freeloaders", though many FLGS don't. With the exception of the minority who strive to buy MSRP, RPGers essentially have a large contingent of folks who do the equivalent of showing up to a restaurant or bar with their own food and drink, while occasionally buying an appetizer and expecting to stay there for five to eight hours. People like that aren't looking for an amazing *retail* experience, they're looking for an amazing *play* experience--and charging for that is not, in my opinion, unethical.</p><p></p><p> [MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION] and [MENTION=93444]shidaku[/MENTION]: There are in fact stores that make money entirely from hosting games. There are a few models for it, including the cafe model. I expect they will grow. My model right now is not profitable under normal circumstances, but that's because I'm only open two days a week for other reasons. The expanded model for when that's possible involves leveraging Meetup groups on non-RPG days, for boardgame nights; hosting game design & other merit badge projects for scouts; catering to teens and children who want to learn D&D via charging for lessons (yes there is a market, and it's one where parents know how much it costs to host a kid for hours), and a bunch more things.</p><p></p><p> [MENTION=40810]Mirtek[/MENTION]: Exactly correct. My FLGS made its money on CCGs and minis.</p><p></p><p> [MENTION=6803664]ccs[/MENTION]: 1) I stay in business because I have another revenue stream from something else. </p><p>2) I give DMs free sessions, one for each session they run; I also give out free sessions for other volunteer services and work.</p><p>3) I could lower my stock--but then I would lose all those initial sales to Amazon. Which, ultimately, it's just better to tell people to buy on Amazon.</p><p>4) (and this also applies to a later comment by [MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION]): My point is that (a) the industry should definitely change to a charging-for-games model post haste. There should be no "free" playspace outside of a library. Mandatory purchases, cafe services, and other things can also suffice. I simply don't understand why there is such pushback: you don't balk at paying for bowling, miniature golf, billiards, target shooting, batting cages, and the like; and what you're paying for are the tools to do the thing with and the space. Why are FLGS so incredibly different? There's not much money in the people who only play at home--but there is a definite need for a place to *play*.</p><p></p><p>The entire FLGS industry owes its origins to RPGs and minis games. In the 80s, they were the only places you could get them and, more importantly, the only way you could meet other people to play those games with; and from there grew everything we have now. Most Magic players in the early days were RPG players first. Without a space to play, these days, the games all die. When the online competition to buy product makes the margins & volume so low that FLGS go out of business...the space goes away, and the people and communities go away, and the home game groups eventually age out, so there's no one new and enthusiastic to greet and play with people face to face...and the future is nothing but virtual tabletop, less human interaction, and less friendships built.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="scottaroberts, post: 7279003, member: 6802666"] First, apologies: though I'm not new to the Intarwebs, quoting multiple posts in one reply is beyond my knowledge with this forum software. I truly appreciate people who support their FLGS via MSRP buying of products in the store. There just aren't enough of them. In fact, I've bought the arguments I hear from those who *don't* pay MSRP while trying to convince people to do so. I find it akin to accepting charity: you know, and I know, that you could get that product 40% cheaper. In essence you're donating money to me. It feels as if I am ripping people off or depending entirely on their goodwill and, well, businesses don't really succeed if they're relying on people to realize they should *not* take the bargain offered elsewhere. [MENTION=93444]shidaku[/MENTION]: I don't really expect people who can host at home to pay for space. The frequency of purchase of D&D accessories, and their price points, does not make enough money to keep a space afloat in and of itself (although in a larger store, cross-gaming customers can buy enough regularly to keep up the space). [MENTION=6685730]DMMike[/MENTION]: The gaming cafe model is an excellent one--but it's also much more expensive to set up, run, etc...and the best use of such a space's appeal is not to draw an RPG crowd at all; if I were to do it, it'd be pretty much all boardgames and directed towards a dating/youth market looking for something different to do. But that's just me. [MENTION=18182]Dire Bare[/MENTION]: I love hearing about successful stores, but I'll point a few things out: first, you're in Idaho; rural areas and the midwest (due to a lack of competition for entertainment dollars) tend to do quite a lot better than places in more urban areas from my knowledge. Second, they make their money from CCGs and minis games primarily. Third, you just said they lost your business because the employees screwed up--a problem that Amazon does not have. Lastly, you *have to* "care whether they're freeloaders", though many FLGS don't. With the exception of the minority who strive to buy MSRP, RPGers essentially have a large contingent of folks who do the equivalent of showing up to a restaurant or bar with their own food and drink, while occasionally buying an appetizer and expecting to stay there for five to eight hours. People like that aren't looking for an amazing *retail* experience, they're looking for an amazing *play* experience--and charging for that is not, in my opinion, unethical. [MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION] and [MENTION=93444]shidaku[/MENTION]: There are in fact stores that make money entirely from hosting games. There are a few models for it, including the cafe model. I expect they will grow. My model right now is not profitable under normal circumstances, but that's because I'm only open two days a week for other reasons. The expanded model for when that's possible involves leveraging Meetup groups on non-RPG days, for boardgame nights; hosting game design & other merit badge projects for scouts; catering to teens and children who want to learn D&D via charging for lessons (yes there is a market, and it's one where parents know how much it costs to host a kid for hours), and a bunch more things. [MENTION=40810]Mirtek[/MENTION]: Exactly correct. My FLGS made its money on CCGs and minis. [MENTION=6803664]ccs[/MENTION]: 1) I stay in business because I have another revenue stream from something else. 2) I give DMs free sessions, one for each session they run; I also give out free sessions for other volunteer services and work. 3) I could lower my stock--but then I would lose all those initial sales to Amazon. Which, ultimately, it's just better to tell people to buy on Amazon. 4) (and this also applies to a later comment by [MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION]): My point is that (a) the industry should definitely change to a charging-for-games model post haste. There should be no "free" playspace outside of a library. Mandatory purchases, cafe services, and other things can also suffice. I simply don't understand why there is such pushback: you don't balk at paying for bowling, miniature golf, billiards, target shooting, batting cages, and the like; and what you're paying for are the tools to do the thing with and the space. Why are FLGS so incredibly different? There's not much money in the people who only play at home--but there is a definite need for a place to *play*. The entire FLGS industry owes its origins to RPGs and minis games. In the 80s, they were the only places you could get them and, more importantly, the only way you could meet other people to play those games with; and from there grew everything we have now. Most Magic players in the early days were RPG players first. Without a space to play, these days, the games all die. When the online competition to buy product makes the margins & volume so low that FLGS go out of business...the space goes away, and the people and communities go away, and the home game groups eventually age out, so there's no one new and enthusiastic to greet and play with people face to face...and the future is nothing but virtual tabletop, less human interaction, and less friendships built. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Xanathar's, Wizards, and FLGSes Charging For Playspace
Top