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You're a villain. How would you change the world? Contest with prizes. (Spoilers for ZEITGEIST)
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<blockquote data-quote="gideonpepys" data-source="post: 6154679" data-attributes="member: 79141"><p>Thanks. I enjoy being able to use the forum as a sounding board for campaign ideas, so its useful for me too, and doesn't take too much extra effort, as I write the journal for my players anyway (and just tweak it for the boards). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Neither can I. I didn't really consider that to be the role of this debate, or my part in it. </p><p></p><p>But I do think that the 'evil outcome' could derive from something above or beyond this debate: perhaps there are inevitable casualties as a result of the huge changes wrought by the Ob? Could it be that one use for the huge lighthouse-sized Wayfarer Lanterns is to protect key areas from the chaos that will rip through the rest of the world? (This may in fact be something RangerWickett already has in mind.)</p><p></p><p>So this new utopia will be built on deaths of hundreds of thousands if not millions, and the Ob think that it is worth it (or in some cases are unaware that this will be the outcome).</p><p></p><p>Add to that the fact that the plan fails and you have a conspiracy that gambled everything - and I mean, literally, <em>everything</em> - to get what they thought was best, and having taken that gamble and lost, then go on to insist that they be allowed to continue, at even greater risk, to set things 'right'. (Again, in their own subjective view.) I like the idea that the players might even agree with the proposed outcome, but have to fight to wrest the dice from the Ob, who have already staked too much on their next throw.</p><p></p><p>Add to this the idea that the central leaders of the conspiracy might be having everyone on and the plot thickens even further. Perhaps Nicodemus has a hidden, secret agenda which will come into play regardless of what the conclave decides.</p><p></p><p>Thing is, I'm not the writer of the AP, so I don't know how any of this will turn out. What I do know is that I would find a benign conspiracy using malign means to achieve their ends more compelling than one with evil ends to begin with. And, as you point out in your post, I can see what's wrong with Panarchism from the outset - I can see how people might object to it. </p><p></p><p>To be honest, I can see how folks might object to the idea altering reality in any way. If you take that as the basis for your objection - the fact that the Ob have no right to do what they are doing - none of the twists I have mentioned need to be involved.</p><p></p><p>One more point - I know that Nicodemus now holds a 'twisted' view of the ideals he once did. Again, I never saw this debate as an attempt to embody those views. It can't be can it, unless we're pretending that every fictional character who is taking part has also read the Campaign Guide! So we have to assume that Nicodemus has something up his sleeve, don't we? Or maybe his 'twisted' view is simply that realty itself needs changing - no matter what the cost - because humanity can't be altered, improved, or persuaded, by any other means.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="gideonpepys, post: 6154679, member: 79141"] Thanks. I enjoy being able to use the forum as a sounding board for campaign ideas, so its useful for me too, and doesn't take too much extra effort, as I write the journal for my players anyway (and just tweak it for the boards). Neither can I. I didn't really consider that to be the role of this debate, or my part in it. But I do think that the 'evil outcome' could derive from something above or beyond this debate: perhaps there are inevitable casualties as a result of the huge changes wrought by the Ob? Could it be that one use for the huge lighthouse-sized Wayfarer Lanterns is to protect key areas from the chaos that will rip through the rest of the world? (This may in fact be something RangerWickett already has in mind.) So this new utopia will be built on deaths of hundreds of thousands if not millions, and the Ob think that it is worth it (or in some cases are unaware that this will be the outcome). Add to that the fact that the plan fails and you have a conspiracy that gambled everything - and I mean, literally, [I]everything[/I] - to get what they thought was best, and having taken that gamble and lost, then go on to insist that they be allowed to continue, at even greater risk, to set things 'right'. (Again, in their own subjective view.) I like the idea that the players might even agree with the proposed outcome, but have to fight to wrest the dice from the Ob, who have already staked too much on their next throw. Add to this the idea that the central leaders of the conspiracy might be having everyone on and the plot thickens even further. Perhaps Nicodemus has a hidden, secret agenda which will come into play regardless of what the conclave decides. Thing is, I'm not the writer of the AP, so I don't know how any of this will turn out. What I do know is that I would find a benign conspiracy using malign means to achieve their ends more compelling than one with evil ends to begin with. And, as you point out in your post, I can see what's wrong with Panarchism from the outset - I can see how people might object to it. To be honest, I can see how folks might object to the idea altering reality in any way. If you take that as the basis for your objection - the fact that the Ob have no right to do what they are doing - none of the twists I have mentioned need to be involved. One more point - I know that Nicodemus now holds a 'twisted' view of the ideals he once did. Again, I never saw this debate as an attempt to embody those views. It can't be can it, unless we're pretending that every fictional character who is taking part has also read the Campaign Guide! So we have to assume that Nicodemus has something up his sleeve, don't we? Or maybe his 'twisted' view is simply that realty itself needs changing - no matter what the cost - because humanity can't be altered, improved, or persuaded, by any other means. [/QUOTE]
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