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Zeitgeist, Pathfinder 2e, the magical traditions, and alchemy [spoilers]
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<blockquote data-quote="EarthSeraphEdna" data-source="post: 7814455" data-attributes="member: 49309"><p>What makes you say that skyseeing, astrology, and astronomy are all primal, anyway? Do even the Obscurati's astrologers and astronomers, like Nathan Jierre over in Axis Island, and Thornsenkertz and Gangenwieck over in Knütpara, make use of primal magic techniques?</p><p></p><p>A mad shootist's shrink rays could very well be alchemical. After all, elixirs can outright polymorph people, even changing bodies outright (e.g. infiltrator's elixir).</p><p></p><p>I can buy the Sacrament of Apotheosis as divine. It creates a god on the spot. But what makes you call eschatologists and logoi divine in power source? You had them as psionic back in 4e; is there something that made you change your stance on them? I was under the impression that occult magic was all about strange and esoteric philosophies, whereas divine magic centered around faith in a higher power. Does that mean you consider eschatologists and logoi to have "faith in a higher power" as a more important concept than "strange and esoteric philosophies"?</p><p></p><p>The Obscurati's nethermantic division is wizardly, true. But I am thinking that that may be outdated in Pathfinder 2e's paradigm. Essentially, arcane magic and occult magic both revolve around the thorough study and cataloguing of magic, but arcane magic views magic as a science, whereas occult magic views magic as an art and a humanity, hence the massive divide in thinking between, say, wizards and bards.</p><p></p><p>The sciences are ultimately more all-encompassing, and can even view other fields through a scientific lens, such as social sciences and human geography. This is why arcane magic is the broadest type of magic by far, and why it can even apply its understanding to other types of magic; however, there are still some things it does not quite get, like the finer nuances of the intangible, which is where occult magic shines.</p><p></p><p>Would that make the Obscurati's various shadow-themed magicians more arcane, or more occult? At the moment, the occult tradition has access to all of the core rulebook's shadow-themed spells, but I can see the Obscurati poaching them through arcane, scientific study as well.</p><p></p><p>For that matter, consider Zeitgeist's own brand of dragons and fey. Normally, in Pathfinder 2e, dragons are predominantly arcane, while fey are chiefly primal, but would it be any different in Zeitgeist? I could see a case for occult dragons, given the Hex-Eater and the duplicant-maker. I could also see a case for occult fey, given the fanciful stories and whimsy that the Dreaming is made up of.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EarthSeraphEdna, post: 7814455, member: 49309"] What makes you say that skyseeing, astrology, and astronomy are all primal, anyway? Do even the Obscurati's astrologers and astronomers, like Nathan Jierre over in Axis Island, and Thornsenkertz and Gangenwieck over in Knütpara, make use of primal magic techniques? A mad shootist's shrink rays could very well be alchemical. After all, elixirs can outright polymorph people, even changing bodies outright (e.g. infiltrator's elixir). I can buy the Sacrament of Apotheosis as divine. It creates a god on the spot. But what makes you call eschatologists and logoi divine in power source? You had them as psionic back in 4e; is there something that made you change your stance on them? I was under the impression that occult magic was all about strange and esoteric philosophies, whereas divine magic centered around faith in a higher power. Does that mean you consider eschatologists and logoi to have "faith in a higher power" as a more important concept than "strange and esoteric philosophies"? The Obscurati's nethermantic division is wizardly, true. But I am thinking that that may be outdated in Pathfinder 2e's paradigm. Essentially, arcane magic and occult magic both revolve around the thorough study and cataloguing of magic, but arcane magic views magic as a science, whereas occult magic views magic as an art and a humanity, hence the massive divide in thinking between, say, wizards and bards. The sciences are ultimately more all-encompassing, and can even view other fields through a scientific lens, such as social sciences and human geography. This is why arcane magic is the broadest type of magic by far, and why it can even apply its understanding to other types of magic; however, there are still some things it does not quite get, like the finer nuances of the intangible, which is where occult magic shines. Would that make the Obscurati's various shadow-themed magicians more arcane, or more occult? At the moment, the occult tradition has access to all of the core rulebook's shadow-themed spells, but I can see the Obscurati poaching them through arcane, scientific study as well. For that matter, consider Zeitgeist's own brand of dragons and fey. Normally, in Pathfinder 2e, dragons are predominantly arcane, while fey are chiefly primal, but would it be any different in Zeitgeist? I could see a case for occult dragons, given the Hex-Eater and the duplicant-maker. I could also see a case for occult fey, given the fanciful stories and whimsy that the Dreaming is made up of. [/QUOTE]
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