House-ruled Flaming Sphere

[icemaze0]

One of my players has an Eladrin Wizard and I feel that Flaming Sphere is a little too powerful. It seems my opinion is shared by many GMs, so modified the text a little to make it a little better.

I didn't have the chance to see it in action, so be careful, but I think it should work.

Here's the relevant part:
Effect: you conjure a Medium flaming sphere that occupies a square within range, and the sphere attacks. Any creature that ends its turn adjacent to the sphere takes 1d4 + Intellgence modifier fire damage. Also this proximity damage is dealt to any creature that moves or teleports in a square adjacent to the sphere. Any creature can suffer proximity damage only once per turn.

The rest stays the same.

Implications:

• If you move the sphere next to a creature, it has a chance to escape its effects by moving out of the way. This reduces the damage output but forces creatures to move, giving the Wizard a better control of the battlefield.
• A creature can be pushed in the sphere's zone of influence and take 1d4+INT. But the "only once per turn" clause means that you cannot deal massive damage this way.
• On the other hand, if a creature is pushed next to the sphere and then slid by another PC, it takes more damage.
• Also, creatures cannot move near the sphere and expect to emerge unscathed.

I feel my version of the Flaming Sphere has more tactical potential. What do you think? Can you see any way this version could be abused?

 

[keterys]

Hmm, you may want to look at the last thread of Toning Down Flaming Sphere - and here's my reponse to the thread:

Flaming Sphere
Daily ✦ Arcane, Conjuration, Fire, Implement
Standard Action
Ranged 10
Target: One creature adjacent to the flaming sphere
Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Intelligence modifier fire damage.
Effect: You conjure a Medium flaming sphere in an unoccupied square within range, and the sphere attacks an adjacent creature. Any creature that ends its turn next to
the flaming sphere takes 1d6 + Intelligence modifier fire damage. As a move action, you can move the sphere up to 6 squares.
Sustain Minor: Make another attack with the flaming sphere.

Changelog: 2d6->1d6, 1d4->1d6, _end_ of turn for autodamage, attack as a sustain minor instead of minor + standard

Why? Because I think it makes it actually a control tool by making people move around (or take damage), I dislike autodamage with the inability to respond, and I dislike removing the option to use your other powers in favor of a more damaging standard action at-will attack.

I had slightly different objections from you, but it might still be helpful to you.

 

[icemaze0]

I see how you have a slightly different rationale behind your house-rule. I too dislike auto-damage. My intention was to remove that (subjective) flaw while changing as little as possible (thus abiding to the KISS principle).

 

[keterys]

Yep, similar concept, slightly different result.

 

[Hjorimir]

How many encounters are you challenging your group with each day? Dailies should be powerful (and they are), but the key to keeping them balanced is multiple encounters per day.

The autodamage that Flaming Sphere provides isn't big damage, but it does gobble up minions...which is one of the things that defines controllers. So we're talking about a daily power that fit's in to a particular role's gig...seems fine to me.

If you think Flaming Sphere is bad, what are you going to do when that wizard hits 5th and grabs Stinking Cloud? Damage-zones are a big part of a wizard's daily spell list.

 

[evilbob]

Sorry for not helping you fix it, but I'm actually of the mind that flaming sphere is the only thing that's good about a 1st level wizard. Yes, it's more powerful than the average daily: but the rest of the wizard's repertoire is worse. Without their over-the-top dailies, wizards quickly sink to the bottom of the power list.

My advice is to actually just wait one month until Arcane Power comes out. Check it out and see if it helps to "fix" wizards. If you still don't like the power once that's out (and maybe after you've seen it in action a few times) then you'll probably not only be better equipped to fix it, but have a better idea of what you don't like.

 

[icemaze0]

Hi guys! Thanks for your insights.

@Hjorimir: you are right, you need some encounters per day to keep dailies balanced. Unfortunately this ideal situation doesn't always present itself, especially in my campaigns, which often include travels and urban encounters.

Please note that the power level of the Flaming Sphere isn't affected by much: the power deals less damage but gives more control over the battlefield since it usually forces enemies to move out of its way (they must move directly away to avoid damage, which in turn means they might provoke OAs).

And, as I said before, I like my minions to be able to escape certain death and live one or two rounds longer.

Try it in your campaign and report back. Give the new Flaming Sphere to an NPC and see how it affects combat dynamics. That's my challenge.

 

[Psikus]

Any creature that ends its turn adjacent to the sphere takes 1d4 + Intellgence modifier fire damage. Also this proximity damage is dealt to any creature that moves or teleports in a square adjacent to the sphere. Any creature can suffer proximity damage only once per turn.

I proposed something very simmilar in the previous thread on the subject. I agree it's a good idea, but sometimes it can be difficult to sell.

If you think Flaming Sphere is bad, what are you going to do when that wizard hits 5th and grabs Stinking Cloud? Damage-zones are a big part of a wizard's daily spell list.

Well, the coherent thing to do is apply the same change to other zones that deal auto damage at the beginning of every turn.

Please note that the power level of the Flaming Sphere isn't affected by much: the power deals less damage but gives more control over the battlefield since it usually forces enemies to move out of its way (they must move directly away to avoid damage, which in turn means they might provoke OAs).

This is not entirely true. Power level IS affected. You deal less raw damage. The enemy is given an option, either to move around the zone (letting you control the battlefield) or to ignore it and get hurt. Thing is, this choice makes the power less effective than if it just forced one of the options. Enemies tend to choose what is most favourable to them.

And here is where it becomes a hard sell. You are taking (a bit of) power from wizard, a class that isn't overpowered outside of combos involving Orb implements, impossible salvations, and stun effects (which we're not using). In fact, wizards are usually a bit weak, except for their great daily powers. So most people are ok with Flaming Sphere, Stinking Cloud and the like being that good.

Personally, I think FS and company, while not broken, are good enough that they can take small nerfs like the one you propose, and remain competitive against other wizard spells. I know I would still take FS after that change.

This change makes Flaming Sphere (in my opinion) more fun, not only to play with, but also against. I'd recommend to give it a try. As for me, I'm still trying to convince the wizard in my campaign to accept the change, but I'm having very favourable experiences changing my own fighter's Rain of Steel in a simmilar way (to also deal damage at the end of opponent's turns). In that case, the loss in damage output and minion autokills is significant, but I do get to make OAs and challenge attacks every turn, and it's probably still the best Fighter daily power.

 

[FireLance]

How many encounters are you challenging your group with each day? Dailies should be powerful (and they are), but the key to keeping them balanced is multiple encounters per day.

One house rule that I have been considering is that you can only prepare flaming sphere if you have reached at least one milestone before an extended rest. For most wizards this means that they will have to prepare their other 1st-level daily spell (or one of their other 1st-level daily spells, if they have Expanded Spellbook) if they only have one encounter between extended rests. Flaming sphere will thus be slightly more risky for multiclassed wizards since they don't have an alternative.

The same rules could apply to other daily spells that are considered somewhat more powerful than the norm, e.g. stinking cloud. A wizard can prepare one such spell for each milestone that he has reached before his extended rest, i.e. if he has reached one milestone, he can prepare either flaming sphere or stinking cloud. If he wants to prepare both, he will have to reach two milestones first.

 

[keterys]

I'm really starting to like the idea behind Jonathan Tweet's house rule that you only can get the benefits of an extended rest every four fights (two milestones).

I really have to get around to trying it out, but seems like it would solve any concerns about not enough encounters...