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After reading several blogs talking about how good this is I decided to finally get it. Besides, the price was really good!
Let me preface my opinion by saying that I have bought Toolbox, Ultimate Toolbox, Mother of All Encounter Tables, Mother of All Treasure Tables, and probably other books of Tables I cannot recall right now, and that is what I am basing my opinion of this book on, my experiences and expectations based on those previous purchases.
Taking all of that into account, I like the art. There is a lot, I mean a lot, of good old school style B/W artwork all throughout. The layout is nice and clear, and the text is in nice big print so that I did not need my glasses to read most of it.
As for the tables. Well, in comparison to the aforementioned products, they are extremely limited, unimaginative, short, very limited use. I was totally disappointed.
I absolutely do not get the great reviews I read on several blogs, etc... I can only presume they did not buy the products I have previously mentioned, so their bars were set comparatively very low to mine.
So if you are like me, and have bought the books I have mentioned, don't be surprised if your likewise disappointed.
If you have not bought the products I mentioned, you will likely find this book worth getting. So get this book first! Then buy the other products I mentioned to find out what extensive, highly imaginative, and highly useful tables are like. Especially Ultimate Toolbox.
Definitely the most disappointing product I have bought done by Goodman Games in the last few years.
I do think it has to do with my regular use of Ultimate Toolbox. So if you have not bought, and regularly used UT, you will probably like this book much better than I do. However all I can see is how much they did not do.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
Thanks for the warning. Not that I'm likely to buy such a thing anyway, but you never know. Huh, well now I do actually.
I have to wonder if the glowing phrases you might've encountered are at all due to the 'old-skool' art featured. But then, I haven't actually seen the thing in the flesh, or read any 'reviews' / reviews. So maybe not.
I do know that some people out there go absolutely bug**** crazy when names like Erol Otus or whatever come up, but hey, might not be anything to do with that. . .
As for the tables. Well, in comparison to the aforementioned products, they are extremely limited, unimaginative, short, very limited use. I was totally disappointed.
I remember early versions of the Alphabet, and it originally didn't have any tables (and doesn't need any as far as I'm concerned), and I thought it was so fantastic that I printed it out and inserted it into my GM Binder right away.
I don't want to speak for the author, but my impression is that attempting to use the Alphabet as a reference book in the manner of the other books you mentioned is against the very concept of the work.
It's an inspirational tool, not something that is supposed to do any work for you.
Well, if nothing else, it's nice to hear a dissenting voice. Everything else I've seen has been absolutely glowing about it.
I was on the fence, and decided I would get it after reading that it had a lot of tables in it. However, I also have the ultimate toolbox (though I don't use it often), so now I worry that the tables might not be that hot.
As JimLotFP mentions, I was under the impression that the book was not just about the tables, though. What're your thoughts on the rest of it?
It's an inspirational tool, not something that is supposed to do any work for you.
That was my impression as well- I do not own the new book, but having read through the author's "original" work published in Knockspell (#1, I believe) I found it very inspirational- in a minimalist sort of way.
I'm not sure why anyone would have thought this product was comparitive to the "toolbox" books, or was simply a book filled with random tables???
And FWIW- if you are the kind of person who loves random tables, you really need to check out the Beyond The Black Gate blog- Al is the second coming of Gygax when it comes to cool random tables.
__________________ Founding Father of O.A.F! - Old school Admirers of Fourth edition
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"I feel books like "A Princess of Mars", "The Swords of Lankhmar" and "The Black Company" are far more important to your gaming experience than whether you choose between OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, or D&D4E." - The Ravyn
I think people sometimes get too fixated about what's "official" to see what they could do with the whole- "David "Zeb" Cook
The Grognardia review also points to the tables as the weakest part of it. The glowing praise for the book there is focused on the essays about evocative dungeon features. From my own experience, I find that it's pretty easy to make tables for my own use, and that the best published tables are less helpful in actual play than the half-baked ones I make. I think this is because the act of making the table forces me to imagine multiple possibilities that are appropriate to my specific game ahead of time, while using a Toolbox table means that I have to decide if it's appropriate and what it means in this situation only after I make the roll.
So from this perspective, advice about what kinds of things might appear on tables is more valuable than pre-made tables, and if Goodman asked Curtis to provide some tables for the published book as an example of how you could take the advice and turn it into a table, it's actually kind of good if the results leave me fired up to do one that's better.
This book is pretty much nothing but tables, one table, or set of tables, for letters of the alphabet, and not all letters of the alphabet either. (Edit: I was wrong here, each letter does have an entry, just not all letters got a two page spread like I initially thought.)
So other than the forward by Cook, and the intro section, I see pretty much nothing but tables, and Ultimate Toolbox is magnitudes more inspirational than this book is.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
-1E DMG, page 230
Last edited by Treebore; 14th February 2010 at 11:59 PM..
I haven't picked it up yet, but that contradicts the impression I have from the Grognardia review:
"The book presents us with 26 entries -- one for each letter of the alphabet -- each of which is ostensibly connected to some topic pertaining to dungeons, such as altars, doors, oozes, or traps. Each entry is a brief, two or three paragraph, meditation on the topic in question, providing both practical advice on using the subject matter in designing a dungeon and "philosophical" musings on the whys and wherefores of doing so. It's a potent combination and Curtis's writing is straightforward without being vapid and detailed without being pedantic. Each entry is rounded out with a random table of some kind to jumpstart one's imagination about the topic (such unusual jewel properties or thirty results of a pulled lever)."
I liked it as a nodd to old school art. Hell, I wish Goodman would do an art book for it.
But as I note in my own review, "If the reader is looking for a massive reference work, AEG's Toolbox and Ultiamte Toolbox are far more useful for such utility. "
I have AEG's Toolbox, Mother of all Treasure Tables, Mother of all Encounters, and the "Bits of..." series of books from TableTop Adventures.
These books really scratch my itch for campaign ideas and encounter "dressing".
I was looking at this book, and was expecting something like the aforementioned books above. I am glad that I didn't pull the trigger. Funds are light these days and I need to be frugal with my purchases.
__________________ Game on, gang! Ptolus #15 (with customized, personalized sig from Monte.), Rappan Athuk Reloaded #37 (The Necromancer way.)
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I haven't picked it up yet, but that contradicts the impression I have from the Grognardia review:
"The book presents us with 26 entries -- one for each letter of the alphabet -- each of which is ostensibly connected to some topic pertaining to dungeons, such as altars, doors, oozes, or traps. Each entry is a brief, two or three paragraph, meditation on the topic in question, providing both practical advice on using the subject matter in designing a dungeon and "philosophical" musings on the whys and wherefores of doing so. It's a potent combination and Curtis's writing is straightforward without being vapid and detailed without being pedantic. Each entry is rounded out with a random table of some kind to jumpstart one's imagination about the topic (such unusual jewel properties or thirty results of a pulled lever)."
Well I say "pretty much" because that is pretty much what it all is, tables. Now "M" for magic gives a few paragraphs about magic and then on the next page give you a full page table using 3d20 to determine random magic items and effects. So yes, there are paragraphs given per entry, but realize that the two things that take up the vast majority of space in this book is the art and the various tables. Written paragraphs are very much the minority in this book. I would guess that a full 40% of the space in this book is the art, then close to 40% is tables, and the remaining 20, maybe 30% is the written word. This is including the Forward and the Introduction.
Which would be fine if I liked the info in the tables, but I don't. I am spoiled by Ultimate Toolbox and the others.
I have been accused of being a Goodman Games fan boy in the past, so rest assured, I would like to be more positive about this book. I really like Joe G, Harley, and the rest of the people involved at GG. However I cannot be any more positive about this book, the only thing I like about it is the art. Beyond that I'll be looking to UT and other books, not this one.
I am glad its not the original price it was going to be. If I had paid close to $20 for this instead of about $9 I would be angry.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
Thanks for the perspective! I'd read many of the original Dungeon Alphabet posts at Society of Torch, Rope, and Pole and really liked them, so the idea of collecting them in a book with some other stuff seemed like pure win - interesting that that other stuff winds up overshadowing the original essays so much that someone who comes to it fresh hardly notices them.
But it's all good: any fan of random tables and Goodman Games is a friend of mine, preferences within that niche notwithstanding! (Do you have the Judges Guild PDFs like Castle Book and Ready Ref Sheets, and Kellri's free CDD#4? Some of my faves are in there.)
As Jim said, this is 100%inspirational text, aimed at developing "old-school" feel in your games. This is something to read, absorb, admire, for the active Gamemaster who wants to provide a compelling atmosphere and environment for their table.
The heart of the book is the Alphabet itself: "A is for Altars", for instance, followed by some evocative prose on Altars and what they offer to enhance your dungeons.
Attached to each alphabetized subject entry are two tasty side-dishes: an awesome piece of old-school art and a random table.
As the gamemaster absorbs the text of these subjects (while admiring the cool art), he or she is inspired to work them into his or her own dungeons.
Consider it the "Art of War" for old-school DMs, short and sweet and powerful, as opposed to a toolbox.
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