JeffB
Legend
LOL. Yeah I know Dave- I just wasn't sure others were aware- I could have worded that better.
For the benefit of others- He goes by The Ravyn on the necroboards and EracsCousinsUncle or something similar on Dragonsfoot
Goodman Games Dungeon Alphabet
LOL. Yeah I know Dave- I just wasn't sure others were aware- I could have worded that better.
For the benefit of others- He goes by The Ravyn on the necroboards and EracsCousinsUncle or something similar on Dragonsfoot
Treebore
First Post
Which is exactly what Toolbox and UT are as well, fwiw. 'Ideas-inspirers' is as neat a description of both as one could hope for, come to think of it.
I've yet to see a comprehensive resource of any kind for any RPG, personally.
Exactly. Like I thought I said in my early posts, if I had not already bought, and extensively used, Toolbox and Ultimate Toolbox, I would likely think Dungeon Alphabet is pretty cool. Also, for the record, whatever that is, and wherever it is kept, I do own and have read Knockspell #1 and #2, but not #3.
So all I am saying, and have pointed out, is that if you are like me and have seen and experienced the awesomeness of Ultimate Toolbox/Toolbox, and similar other works, your not going to be impressed by this book. Simply put Ultimate Toolbox and Toolbox has the same kind of content, but UT in particular has such tables/inspiration x300! UT has over 1,000 such tables! Not just 1 for each letter of the Alphabet (or for those who like to be technical, 3 for Magic, and other multiple tables for a couple of other letters, like Weird), plus a whole bunch of other tables they posted for fun here on ENWorld and over on the Paizo boards.
So if DA is going to be your first such book, there is a good chance you will like it. Heck, I like it for the art! If you have and use Ultimate Toolbox, Toolbox, and/or the other table laden books I have mentioned, your going to likely be disappointed since this is not done on anywhere the same depth as the others.
So for the very limited scope in which DA is done, its fairly good. Its just I know what really good books are out there, and I already have and use them, so this book is a big disappointment for me. Like I said, in my very first post, I think, if you already have either Toolbox book, etc... I would guess your probably going to be similarly disappointed with this book.
Garnfellow
Explorer
I certainly didn't know, and it's probably just as well. The blog is thoughtful, balanced, and full of good insight and helpful suggestions.
In all honesty, I've found many of Al's old posts over here as Grimstaff to be antagonistic and kind of douchey. (Sorry, Al!)
I'm pretty sure I've been avoiding the blog for exactly that reason, and I've really been missing out on some excellent stuff. I'm glad to be able to see an old EN World poster in a new light.
tenkar
Old School Blogger
Well, going into it I kinda figured 26 letters, 26 tables... it wasn't going to be the be all and end all. I have UT... great piece of work... huge piece of work.
DA fits nicely on my Kindle DX, looks amazing both on my computer screen and the DX, and I happen to find it inspirational. Amazing art and some very decent tables.
I feel like we are comparing Florida Oranges to the little mini ones I grow off my inside orange tree. I find the mini's sweeter but far from filling. Still, they make a nice treat.
DA fits nicely on my Kindle DX, looks amazing both on my computer screen and the DX, and I happen to find it inspirational. Amazing art and some very decent tables.
I feel like we are comparing Florida Oranges to the little mini ones I grow off my inside orange tree. I find the mini's sweeter but far from filling. Still, they make a nice treat.
rogueattorney
Adventurer
The two views on this product can basically be boiled down to, "It's a few lousy tables!" or "It's a few great tables!"
So, allow me to dissent from the OP's dissent. For $9 I got a hardback book with a couple cool tables and some absolutely fantastic art. Seriously, if you like Erol Otus or Peter Mullen, this is practically a must get.
As for the word content... I'm not familiar with the works the OP listed. I am familiar with Judges Guild's Ready Ref Sheets, the Arduin Grimoire, the random tables in the 1e DMG, the original version of the Rogue's Gallery, and Kellri's Encounters Reference. I'd rank this as a skimpier version of the above works. (Again, remember the price.)
I think that if you like 1e style art and OD&D style wackiness, you'll probably like the Dungeon Alphabet. If you don't, you won't. If you're looking for one-stop shopping for your dungeon design needs, this isn't it. If you're looking for some great "old school" inspiration, it's right here.
EDIT: Just looked up Ultimate Toolbox. Is it really fair to compare a ~400 page, ~$50 work to a ~50 page, ~$10 work?
So, allow me to dissent from the OP's dissent. For $9 I got a hardback book with a couple cool tables and some absolutely fantastic art. Seriously, if you like Erol Otus or Peter Mullen, this is practically a must get.
As for the word content... I'm not familiar with the works the OP listed. I am familiar with Judges Guild's Ready Ref Sheets, the Arduin Grimoire, the random tables in the 1e DMG, the original version of the Rogue's Gallery, and Kellri's Encounters Reference. I'd rank this as a skimpier version of the above works. (Again, remember the price.)
I think that if you like 1e style art and OD&D style wackiness, you'll probably like the Dungeon Alphabet. If you don't, you won't. If you're looking for one-stop shopping for your dungeon design needs, this isn't it. If you're looking for some great "old school" inspiration, it's right here.
EDIT: Just looked up Ultimate Toolbox. Is it really fair to compare a ~400 page, ~$50 work to a ~50 page, ~$10 work?
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Treebore
First Post
Well that is just it, isn't it? Like you, and like I posted, I really like the artwork.
Also, like I posted, several times, I think my lack of enthusiasm comes from the fact that I have already bought a book that does what this book tries to do about 300 times better, but with none of the great art.
So yeah, I paid about $40 for my copy of UT, but for about 3 times the money I get 300 times the inspiration and assistance. So I agree it isn't a fair competition, UT wins many times over and is largely why I don't agree with the other reviews I have read. IT is also why I have said at least twice in prior posts, if you have not bought the Toolbox books, you'll probably like Dungeon Alphabet. If you have bought Ultimate Toolbox, only buy Dungeon Alphabet as an art book, because the tables in it have nothing on the tables in Ultimate Toolbox.
Let me also repeat one other thing, I am typically a fan of Goodman Games. Joe, Harley, and company have been great people and have really enjoyed my brief talks with the gang when I had the chances to meet them at Gen Con. Despite me not being a fan of the 4E system, I think the 4E adventures GG has done so far are some of the best adventures they have ever done.
ITs just in this case, due to my circumstances with owning Ultimate Toolbox, etc... this product was a disappointment for me.
jaerdaph
#UkraineStrong
Treebore
First Post
Try leaving it out on the coffee table.
I live in a heavily Southern Baptist area! A number of them already think I am Satanic because I wear T-shirts with *GASP!!* DRAGONS
on them!
No, I am not kidding.
So if I put that book out where my ultra conservative neighbors could see the Erol Otis artwork their beliefs would only be proven.
So it will stay in my bedroom with all my other satanic books, statues, etc...
Plus now, rather than wear my dragon shirts I buy the local shirts with the angels of death on them to wear instead. They are far more accepting of those since it promotes the local hispanic culture. Plus they are pretty darn cool in their own dark macabre way.
Philotomy Jurament
First Post
I don't have UT. I do have Dungeon Alphabet. I thought DA was good, and I loved the art. Personally, I don't think I need DA; I like making my own stuff, and I've been around long enough to come up with this kind of thing, myself. However, I'm still happy with my purchase. (And did I mention I love the art?)
I handed the book to my 13 year old son, who plays in my games and also runs his own Labyrinth Lord game. He thought the book was awesome, and has been studying it like I used to study some of the old D&D books. To him, it was all fresh and new and inspirational.
I think that's where the real value in DA is. For guys who have been playing since the 70s or early 80s, you might get something out of it, but it will still be familiar stuff: more of an "oh, yeah," than a "what a cool idea!" For people less familiar with "old school" or newer to the game, in general, it's a great product. Heck, even if you just want to stoke the "old school" fires or enjoy the waft of nostalgia and maybe get some inspirational reminders, it's probably a good buy. (Good price, and did I mention the cool art?)
Like I said, I'm old and jaded, but my son liked it so much it's he took it and put it on his bookshelf (he stole it from mine). Warmed my heart.
(Now I just need to get him listening to Black Sabbath…)
I handed the book to my 13 year old son, who plays in my games and also runs his own Labyrinth Lord game. He thought the book was awesome, and has been studying it like I used to study some of the old D&D books. To him, it was all fresh and new and inspirational.
I think that's where the real value in DA is. For guys who have been playing since the 70s or early 80s, you might get something out of it, but it will still be familiar stuff: more of an "oh, yeah," than a "what a cool idea!" For people less familiar with "old school" or newer to the game, in general, it's a great product. Heck, even if you just want to stoke the "old school" fires or enjoy the waft of nostalgia and maybe get some inspirational reminders, it's probably a good buy. (Good price, and did I mention the cool art?)
Like I said, I'm old and jaded, but my son liked it so much it's he took it and put it on his bookshelf (he stole it from mine). Warmed my heart.
(Now I just need to get him listening to Black Sabbath…)
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catsclaw227
First Post
That's a great story, it really made my evening.
I remember how I felt when I was an 8th grader, reading my AD&D DM's guide... I could never imagine reading it cover to cover, but I knew that book cover-to-cover. I could tell you where any particular rule or discussion was... it was because I was always searching through it, looking and reading through sections out of order, as was necessary to help me run my early games. The magic item tables... environment stuff... you get the picture.
If this book creates that feeling for even 1 kid, then it is a success.
