I'd like to include the items from Bazaar of the Bizarre from dragon 369. {sorry, don't have link}
Bazaar of the Bizarre
- Feral armor; has a built-in weapon.
- Pact Bow. Does what it sounds like. Elves only.
- Winged Bracers (Level 12) Hang Glider. Situational usability.
- Fleetrunner Boots. Level 5+. Bonuses on running.
- Ghoststride Boots. + to ac and insubstantial while running.
- Giantkind Gloves. At will, throw Rocks. +2 melee damage(encounter power)
- Mask of the Eye Leech. Daily power; blind someone and gain immunity to blindness. Sustain Minor. Requires attack; Any mental + 2 at heroic tier.
- Periapt of Cascading Health. Encounter Power; Minor Action to auto-save against one effect.
- Baldric of Dividing Ranks. + to AC vs Opportunity attacks from minions. OPD you can move through minions' squares until end of next turn.
- Flagon of Ale Procurement. Find water or alchohol within 60 sq.
- Treeform Box. Polymorph into a tree. Ends at will (minor action).
So, what does everyone think? I'd like to start off with one of these item myself. A cookie if someone can figure out which one.
While I doubt this is the case, I really hope that the item you want is the Flagon of Ale Procurement. Because then you could drive your DM nuts by constantly asking where the nearest booze is.
Anyway, it looks good to me. I'm going to hold off on voting for a bit in case anyone finds something I missed.
Last edited by TwoHeadsBarking; 17th July 2009 at 03:19 PM..
Reason: Fixed the link
Yeah just thinking back I don't recall anything broken, but I'll have to pull out my laptop and take a look at the article later this morning to re-read.
I personally hope it's the treeform box so that the first time you use it someone in your party can try and cut you down with a herring.
I personally hope it's the treeform box so that the first time you use it someone in your party can try and cut you down with a herring.
I was hoping for the Treeform Box too, but apparently the ability to turn yourself into a tree is so powerful that it deserves to be a level 10 item. So I stuck to the level 7 or lower items.
Hmm, apparently I screwed up the link. I'll fix it in a sec.
I have some concerns about the Ghoststride boots and the Giantkind Gauntlets.
They seem very powerful for their level. The ability to go insubstantial at will is pretty valuable, the 1/2 damage let's those who might accidently get caught in melee get out with much less of a risk.
For the gauntlets it gives the melee focused PC's a fantastic ranged attack (keyed off their main stat) that (IMHO) that they can throw pebbles with to cause a substantial amount of damage. The damage is better than all other ranged weapons available and they don't really have to worry about running out of ammo because as I read it a coin can be thrown to cause the damage.
Oh and Treeform Box seems to be overpriced, but that's less of a problem I guess.
The boots are less problematic, I think because you only gain the bonus when running, but still quite strong for their level. More discussion needed I think on this one.
The gloves are considerably stronger than other items. Compare them to gauntlets of ogre power(lv 5 item), an at-will ranged attack with a good bonus to attack and great damage, plus an encounter power for +2 bonus damage. vs, a bonus to athletics checks and str ability checks and a daily power of +5 bonus damage.
For the gauntlets it gives the melee focused PC's a fantastic ranged attack (keyed off their main stat) that (IMHO) that they can throw pebbles with to cause a substantial amount of damage.
As it lists an upper range and no lower range on throw weights pebbles would work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by renau1g
The damage is better than all other ranged weapons available and they don't really have to worry about running out of ammo because as I read it a coin can be thrown to cause the damage.
Well it's not a weapon attack or a basic attack, which helps a bit. I think the only thing you need to do is limit the missle to 1/2 or 1/4 the max weight limit. So at 4th, that's 15 or 7.5 lbs. This put a limit on the amount of missles you'll be carrying and also brings back the 'boulder throwing giant' feel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by renau1g
Treeform Box seems to be overpriced, but that's less of a problem I guess.
I've thought many of the items are overpriced in 4e. You can add this one to the list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvolutionKB
The boots are less problematic, I think because you only gain the bonus when running, but still quite strong for their level. More discussion needed I think on this one.
Well, when you run you get speed + 2, AC +1 and insubstantial. You also have a –5 penalty to attack rolls and grant combat advantage to all enemies until the start of your next turn plus provoke opportunity attacks.
So it makes running less sucky. The thing to remember is that they only gain insubstantial and +1 AC WHILE you run, so it only helps with OA attacks. Once the run action is over, if you haven't provoked any OA, these boot do nothing for you.
I'm not overly concerned with the boots. They're good, yes, probably one of the better lvl 6 boots out there (although the Goblin Stompers from AV are pretty nice), but not as good as some of the lvl 7 boots, like Boots of the Fencing Master, which gives you an bonus to AC and Ref when you shift, and gives you an encounter minor action two square shift.
Clearly, what these boots are for is either running out of combat, or running past enemies. But in either case you're looking at a -5 to hit at the end of your movement. So you can't rely on being able to land an attack after you've moved. And there's a decent chance that whatever you ran from will be able to get to you next turn.
I wouldn't mind seeing a minimum weight requirement on the gauntlets' missile weapon, although flicking needles at people for 2d6+Str would be wild. It is also an inaccurate attack. The attack bonus progression is what you normally see against secondary defenses, not AC.
It is also an inaccurate attack. The attack bonus progression is what you normally see against secondary defenses, not AC.
Well it all depends WHEN you get the gloves. You pick them up at it's earliest, it's got the same accuracy as any heavy throw weapon. Once you move some levels, it does drop off but it's no worse than a non-magic thrown weapon. So it ends up being a high damage attack when you HAVE to use ranged or you have a low AC target. Seems like a cool option if someone like to have a ranged weapon 'just in case'. Plus who can't use free bonus damage once per encounter?
I see them being used mostly by either an avenger (who will gain great bonuses to their damage when the get attacked by OA) or ranged types who need to get out of melee and would be willing to take a lower attack roll in that round in order to be safe to use their powers after that.
I'm less concerned about them then the gauntlets, like Evo said.
Well it all depends WHEN you get the gloves. You pick them up at it's earliest, it's got the same accuracy as any heavy throw weapon. Once you move some levels, it does drop off but it's no worse than a non-magic thrown weapon. So it ends up being a high damage attack when you HAVE to use ranged or you have a low AC target. Seems like a cool option if someone like to have a ranged weapon 'just in case'. Plus who can't use free bonus damage once per encounter?
I would like to compare these gloves with the Throwing Shield (lvl 6) item. That item has range 10 (vs 6/12), no encounter power, damage is 1d8 vs 2d6, the daily power pushes 1 square. I think the gloves are too powerful with this comparison as the average damage is about is 3 points higher per attack and it's two leevls lower than a comparitive item from a hardcover.
I see them being used mostly by either an avenger (who will gain great bonuses to their damage when the get attacked by OA).
I'll be honest, I'm not overly familiar with Avengers. Which abilities are you talking about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by renau1g
or ranged types who need to get out of melee and would be willing to take a lower attack roll in that round in order to be safe to use their powers after that.
It would always be MUCH better to move out of combat normally then to run for a ranged person. Run is ALWAYS a crappy option when you are in combat.
Walk out of combat normal OA, normal damage
Run out of combat, combat advantage OA, +1 ac, 1/2 damage from attack, -5 your attack.
Run is only a better option if you KNOW you are going to be hit with the OA and it doesn't have a special effect like having combat advantage. Take an enemy with sneak attack.
Walk and hit with OA: d6 +3 damage
Run and hit with OA: 3d6 +3 dmage halved.
Should have walked even when you KNEW you were going to be hit.
Well it all depends WHEN you get the gloves. You pick them up at it's earliest, it's got the same accuracy as any heavy throw weapon. Once you move some levels, it does drop off but it's no worse than a non-magic thrown weapon. So it ends up being a high damage attack when you HAVE to use ranged or you have a low AC target. Seems like a cool option if someone like to have a ranged weapon 'just in case'. Plus who can't use free bonus damage once per encounter?
*Psst* Stop arguing against your case.
You are right, though. But everything depends on when you get it. A vanilla +2 weapon is pretty good at level 2, but less so at level 5. I meant over time, it's inaccurate. And strictly speaking, it's more like a magical non-weapon (which it is) than a non-magical weapon. A javelin will always be at Str+2 vs AC. This is an implement attack vs AC, which generally suck.
As for Avengers, Censure of Retribution requires that you be hit to trigger the damage, so the AC bonus actually hurts there, although certainly any hits that do land will hurt a lot less. I don't remember the exact math, but I think the Oath comes out to an effective +5 to hit or something, which cancels out the penalty for running. Except Avenger damage seems to be based around being super accurate, so it's like taking away Sneak Attack or Quarry for a turn.
I would like to compare these gloves with the Throwing Shield (lvl 6) item. That item has range 10 (vs 6/12), no encounter power, damage is 1d8 vs 2d6, the daily power pushes 1 square. I think the gloves are too powerful with this comparison as the average damage is about is 3 points higher per attack and it's two leevls lower than a comparitive item from a hardcover.
The shield also gives a defense bonus, the damage evens out at higher levels, and you don't need an addition free hand besides the one you were already holding the shield in.
I would like to compare these gloves with the Throwing Shield (lvl 6) item. That item has range 10 (vs 6/12), no encounter power, damage is 1d8 vs 2d6, the daily power pushes 1 square. I think the gloves are too powerful with this comparison as the average damage is about is 3 points higher per attack and it's two levels lower than a comparative item from a hardcover.
You missed something, That item is also a shield, that's +2 AC and REF. The gloves also need ammo and you can throw the shield all day.
Are they the gloves too strong? If we let people use it like it's the shield and don't track ammo then yes. If someone has to carry around 15 lb rocks to use it? Not really. This item could also use a reload on it. I think a minor reload would work.
And NO one has had a problem with the item I want! Hope it keeps up.
But the shield only gives the same bonus as a basic non-magical shield (costing only a few gold) whereas the gloves cause more damage than any non-magical ranged item.
Oh & for the Avenger, the Oath of Enmity types gain their Dex mod to damage against their oath target if they get hit by an OA along the way. or somethiing like that, but if you only take 1/2 damage it becomes much better.
But the shield only gives the same bonus as a basic non-magical shield (costing only a few gold) whereas the gloves cause more damage than any non-magical ranged item.
But it's NOT a weapon. It's not like I can use my weapon powers with it. And it's not like I can use a shield and throw boulders so it doesn't matter how little cost the base shield is, the glove uses can't get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaud
Oh & for the Avenger, the Oath of Enmity types gain their Dex mod to damage against their oath target if they get hit by an IA along the way. or something like that, but if you only take 1/2 damage it becomes much better.
So + dex and -5 for running? I'm not seeing an awesome combo there. I think shift, no OA and normal hit sounds better IMO.
And NO one has had a problem with the item I want! Hope it keeps up.
So, assuming it's not the Flagon, then what could it be? I think you said you were considering an artificer, so the Feral Armor and Pact Bow aren't too useful. The Baldric of Dividing Ranks is wildly situational. Is it the Fleetrunner boots? I know that if I were trying to get the most out of running, I'd take them over the Ghoststride Boots, so that I'd have a better chance of connecting with my next attack. Unless I were a Retribution Avenger, see below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by renau1g
But the shield only gives the same bonus as a basic non-magical shield (costing only a few gold) whereas the gloves cause more damage than any non-magical ranged item.
Oh & for the Avenger, the Oath of Enmity types gain their Dex mod to damage against their oath target if they get hit by an OA along the way. or somethiing like that, but if you only take 1/2 damage it becomes much better.
Fair enough regarding the shield's defense. I still think the not requiring another free hand is pretty significant though.
The Avenger mechanic is the Censure of Retribution. Whenever they get hit by someone besides their Oath target, they get a stacking +Int to their damage roll against their Oath target until the end of their next turn. Huh, I didn't realize it lasted that long. That actually could be a problem. Avenger runs after Oath target, taking a bunch of half-damage AoOs along the way, and then gets to attack with reduced accuracy. Then on their next turn, they still have the potentially huge +damage, and are attacking at their full accuracy. Hmm.
So, assuming it's not the Flagon, then what could it be?
it's not the Flagon!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBarking
Whenever they get hit by someone besides their Oath target, they get a stacking +Int to their damage roll against their Oath target until the end of their next turn. Huh, I didn't realize it lasted that long. That actually could be a problem. Avenger runs after Oath target, taking a bunch of half-damage AoOs along the way, and then gets to attack with reduced accuracy. Then on their next turn, they still have the potentially huge +damage, and are attacking at their full accuracy. Hmm.
Interesting tactic. Like I said, I'm not overly well versed in the Avenger myself. Honestly why attack at all with the -5? Run then full defense or second wind depending of the amount of damage. However for a huge bonus, it's still a lot of 1/2 damage attacks. Best used with minion AoO.
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The thing to remember is that they only gain insubstantial and +1 AC WHILE you run, so it only helps with OA attacks. Once the run action is over, if you haven't provoked any OA, these boot do nothing for you.
Hope it keeps up.
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