Help on paladin's mount survival, please

[Artoomis]

How do you keep your paladin's mount alive?

Here's my dilemma:

The character concept is a halfling with a celestial riding dog (selected both for concept and to help survival). The idea is to be able to fight mounted when underground. The mount has proved to be quite vulnerable - he's too easily disabled by missed saving throws.

The problem is that the mount is not very survivable as written.

1. Hit points are quite low.
2. AC is not good, but barding can fix that.
3. Saves are very low - even when counting the paladin's base saves.
4. No skill or feat improvement, according to the sage, anyway(the book simply states that you get improved attack bonus and saves as you gain hit die). I don't agree with this ruling - but my DM does, so that's it as far a that goes.
5. Attacks and Saves advance as an animal (not as magical beast, per sage).
6. The mount can't use standard magic items like cloaks, vests, rings, etc.
7. His SR from being a celestial is insignificant - only spells from spell-casters way lower than normally face the party will be resisted.

On the plus side - Improved Evasion and DR from being a celestial help - but low saveing throws is a serous achilles heel.

Now what? Every ruling has gone against helping the mount survive.

The mount is key to this character concept, yet it appears the mount cannot survive for very long at all.

How is a paladin's mount - a key target in a battle - supposed to survive?

The best I can figure is to either take Craft Wondrous Items and creat unique (double-priced, pretty much, as they will have to be slotless) items for my mount to help saving throws, mostly, or try and commission items to be made. Frankly, I don't want to take
Craft Wondrous Items as it does not fit with the character concept.

I even tried creating a prestige class that focused on helping the mount survive, but that didn't work out - by the time I got to a version my DM approved, it was a no-brainer decision to stay a pure paladin.

I am a bit frustrated at this point.

So, any suggestions? How do you get a paladin's mount (that is SUPPOSED to go into combat) survive?

 

[Wolf72]

okay refresh my memory on this one

saves: the creatures base saves or the masters, whichever is better (I know it's part of the familiar's abilities, is it part of the mount's? ... if so, then if the paladin has a better reflex the mount use the paladins (base) reflex instead of it's own.)

hp: just go ahead and give the critter max hp.

magic items: a necklace of resistance, barding of resistance? (use enchanted padded ... light weight ... even better if you put several resistances on it)

all off the top of my head

ej

 

[AGGEMAM]

Ethereal Barding (DotF) would work it's a +3 bonus, so it's not too expensive for what it gives.

Just casting Protection from Evil before combat could also do the trtick.

And generally find a way to buff up that mount's Con.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Your mount has item slots, just like you do. So those items need not be slotless. (Although items that specifically affect both the mount and the rider probably should be double priced.)

So obviously you could have armor, vest, necklace/amulet/collar, bracers, and bracelets (rings). Those do not take much imagination to have made to fit on a dog.

I do not see why you could not also outfit your dog with a headband/helmut, belt, shoes if the DM is reasonable. For example, just like a "shoe/boot" item could be in the form of a set of magical horseshoes, why couldn't a set of canine "shoes" be a set of 4 dog-sized toe rings?

 

[Artoomis]

The argument that he can't use equipment is drawn for polymorph other:

If the new form is a creature who does not use equipment (aberration, animal, beast, magical beast, construct, dragon, elemental, ooze, some outsiders, plant, some undead creatures, some shapechangers, or vermin), the equipment melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.

I think I will propose to my DM that he gets slots - but they are different.

1 Collar
1 Saddle
1 Bridle
1 Saddle Blanket
edit: 1 set of barding
edit: 2 Saddle Bags
edit: 1 set of shoes (kind of like what sled dogs wear)

Everything else would be slotless. Seems reasonable - maybe he'll allow that, at least.

Heck - maybe they would even be cheaper - restricted to dogs only! Or maybe not.

 

[reapersaurus]

Artoomis - it sounds like your DM is being a serious prick to you.

Maybe he's just knee-jerk denying anything that you bring up, because from the stuff you've brought up prevously has been great.

The only reason for him to not allow small things like you've been suggesting is that he really just likes denying you your ideas.

The advancement thing seems a no-brainer to me.
It follws the wording of every published product, and is only negated by a sage ruling.

Most importantly, it allows for more fun game play, and is NOT unbalancing.

Let me guess, Artoomis- he's one of those "I don't want to change 3E until I've played it awhile" DM's?

 

[Artoomis]

Artoomis - it sounds like your DM is being a serious prick to you.

Maybe he's just knee-jerk denying anything that you bring up, because from the stuff you've brought up prevously has been great.

The only reason for him to not allow small things like you've been suggesting is that he really just likes denying you your ideas.

The advancement thing seems a no-brainer to me.
It follws the wording of every published product, and is only negated by a sage ruling.

Most importantly, it allows for more fun game play, and is NOT unbalancing.

Let me guess, Artoomis- he's one of those "I don't want to change 3E until I've played it awhile" DM's?

Actually he's really pretty reasonable, but is very careful with game balance. He's had to deal with some out-of-balance issues before, and doesn't want to do that again. Thus he errs on the side of caution.

Meantime I'm trying to figure out how to keep my mount alive when he is actually intended to go into combat.

I wonder if I could create/commission a magic item:

Divine Collar of Survival. When worn by a paladin's called mount, this collar alows the mount to share the paladin's Divine Grace ability when within 5' of the paladin. It also allows the mount to advance as a magical beast (his creature type) for skills, feats, saves and attack bonus.

(At maximum advancement, a riding dog would gain 2 feats , a few skills points and a bit of a better attack bonus. A horse would do just a bit better becasue of teh additional HD)

Cost? Probably a lot. How does 25,000 gp sound?

Prerequisites? Good question - it might require a paladin to make it. Probably something like Righteous Fury and Prayer or soimething.

 

[Zaruthustran]

huh?

I'm a bit confused by why your mount is so vulnerable. Especially a celestial mount. I mean, come on, it has GREAT saves (your saves), any physical attacks against it can be negated by a simple skill roll (you *do* have mounted combat, right?), and it shares your spells.

Plus, as you mentioned, it has celestial elemental resistances and DR.

And improved evasion.

I mean, come on, this thing should be pretty much indestructible.

If you're having trouble, just cast (or have the wiz/cleric cast) the standard battle buff spells: Endurance, Cat's Grace, Shield of Faith. Have the mage spend a cheap 1st level slot on Mage Armor. With a few simple low level spells, both you and your mount are augmented.

Remember that if you heal yourself with lay on hands or zap yourself with a cure spell, your mount gets healed as well. Make use of the "Share Spells" ability!

 

[Umbran]

The item giving altered advancement might be a bit dicey. What happens if it gets destroyed or removed? What happens to the feats and skills?

In general, it makes more sense for an item to give flat, well defined, bonuses that will not change over time. Add a specific feat, or a specific skill bonus, rather than say that the creature will, get more Feats and skills over time. This wouold be *far* more likely to be acceptable to a balance-conscious DM. He can see the total effect now, rather than having to sit and think about how you might use it.

Reaper: Sorry, but jumping to conclusions about the character of the DM really isn't all that constructive. Assuming that you (who have never met the guy or played in this game) know the only reason he could disallow a thing is... a bit presumptuous, no?

And there is nothing wrong with wanting to play a system for a while before making alterations. Not everyone sees how a system flows just by looking at the text of the rulebook, or by playing an adventure or two.

 

[Artoomis]

The item giving altered advancement might be a bit dicey. What happens if it gets destroyed or removed? What happens to the feats and skills?

In general, it makes more sense for an item to give flat, well defined, bonuses that will not change over time. Add a specific feat, or a specific skill bonus, rather than say that the creature will, get more Feats and skills over time. This wouold be *far* more likely to be acceptable to a balance-conscious DM. He can see the total effect now, rather than having to sit and think about how you might use it.

I agree. But what I'm trying to do is be reasonable and simply allow the advancement he would have as his creature type. I presume if the item is lost/destroyed than everything he gained is unavailable - not too much different from any other magic item, really.

I other words, I'm trying to correct what I see as a bad ruling form the sage - and I think I might be able to do it, albeit at the price of having to take the Craft Wondrous Items feat and spend some cash and experience points.

Now, I don't really want to go this route. It does not fit my character concept for this character to go around making magic items. I'd rather have this stuff be granted as part of a prestige class, perhaps, but my DM and I failed to agree on how to proceed in that direction. While I could possibly get an agreement eventually, it's not worth it - he really tears his hair out over these things, and I don't want to cause him grief - this is a game, after all, and is supposed to be fun for all.

Any other thoughts on how I might proceed would be received most gratefully.