Swordmage Implement with Wizard powers?

Tellerve said:

I concede, I'm wrong

It is interesting to note that if you are a warlock/wizard or wizard/warlock it behooves you to be a wand version of your class as you'll only need to get that one implement to play double duty. I'm not a huge fan of that, but whatever, RAW.

Tellerve

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Only to save money, or for a shield. All the warlock and wizard implements can be used one-handed, so unless you can't afford it or have taken shield proficiency feat (why are you pumping you str as a wiz/warlock? Aren't you MAD enough already?), just use one implement in each hand. Works out well that way.

markl said:

Not, however, as weapons, since clerics are not proficient in axes, hammers or heavy blades. Of course, there are simple and obvious ways to get around that.

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Scythes are both Simple Melee and Heavy Blades.

JDillard said:

Only to save money, or for a shield. All the warlock and wizard implements can be used one-handed, so unless you can't afford it or have taken shield proficiency feat (why are you pumping you str as a wiz/warlock? Aren't you MAD enough already?), just use one implement in each hand. Works out well that way.

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Remember though that you can hold an item in the light shield hand. Just hold one implement and wield the other. Then swap when you want to use the other power type.

Light shield is +1 AC and +1 Ref. That's a pretty nice bump. And if you are a warlock who went paladin multi-class you already have the strength.

Christopher Robin said:

Hm. Okay, I just noticed something. While Swordmages don't get their weapon proficiency bonus when using it as an Implement (same as everyone else) many of their attacks are Weapon, not Implement. Like Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade. Which means they DO get their bonus on many attacks. Also, they get their weapons enhancement bonus added to attack and damage rolls. Does anyone else have something like that?

I dunno, does that make up for the lack of special implement powers?

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It's pretty easy, actually. Weapons get their proficiency bonus to Weapon powers, and don't when used as Implements. The special powers of weapons don't always state whether they are used for weapon attacks or implement attacks. Usually they state melee or ranged, which means that weapon powers with close attack types wouldn't use melee dailies on a weapon either. It's actually not as wierd a problem as you think.

DracoSuave said:

It's pretty easy, actually. Weapons get their proficiency bonus to Weapon powers, and don't when used as Implements. The special powers of weapons don't always state whether they are used for weapon attacks or implement attacks. Usually they state melee or ranged, which means that weapon powers with close attack types wouldn't use melee dailies on a weapon either. It's actually not as wierd a problem as you think.

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Yep--just looking at the weapons in the PHB, any of the following should work with the weapon being used as an implement (although it might be debatable, many powers say "attacks with this weapon," which could be construed as meaning the power has to have the Weapon keyword. Personally I think as long as the power can receive the weapon's enhancement bonus it counts as an attack with that weapon):

- Berserker
- Dancing
- Dragonslayer
- Duelist's
- Flameburst (assuming you have a spell that counts as a ranged basic attack)
- Flaming
- Frost
- Holy Avenger
- Lightning
- Perfect Hunter's (again assuming you have a spell that counts as a ranged basic attack)
- Resounding
- Terror
- Thunderburst (again assuming you have a spell that counts as a ranged basic attack)
- Thundering
- Vicious

Two weapon properties are debatable. Lifedrinker would work if you had a power with both the Melee and Implement keywords, but I'm not sure such a thing exists. Vorpal should allow you to use the daily power (+3d12 damage), but not the rerolling property as that property applies to weapon damage dice and there are no powers with the Implement keyword that inflict [W] damage (unless I missed one in the Swordmage).

Battlecry (warpriest 11) has implement keyword and deals [W] damage.
I suspect it was a typo, though.

Aservan said:

Remember though that you can hold an item in the light shield hand. Just hold one implement and wield the other. Then swap when you want to use the other power type.

Light shield is +1 AC and +1 Ref. That's a pretty nice bump. And if you are a warlock who went paladin multi-class you already have the strength.

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Still a bummer for a swordmage who can't put anything in his offhand, unless he wants to loose +2 to AC.

Tellerve

"This field provides a +1 bonus to AC or +3 if you are only carrying a one handed blade.."

Just thought Id clarify that before anyone else gets on the +2 bandwagon

I'm playing a Firesoul Swordmage currently using the preview material. The daily power Burning Blade is a little lackin IMO. Its adding damage after its been used which is great, but Im just not seeing it as anything close to a Brutal Strike or similar better daily power.

Hang on unless I haven't read this thread very carefully, could well be true, why does a multiclassed Warlock/Wizard need to use a wand why can't he use a rod for his wizard powers?

If memory serves me right the actual powers say Wizard Attack, Warlock Attack, and then has an implement keyword, I put it to the Jury that a character trained in any implements can use them for any powers, which just have the requisit of the implement keyword on them. (Not having the PHB to hand not sure if implements have arcane/divine keywords on them? so you can only use arcane ones for wizards/warlocks powers)

Just like with a weapon power, as long as you're trained in the weapon you can use it with that power as long as there are no restrictions on the power itself.

Danceofmasks said:

Battlecry (warpriest 11) has implement keyword and deals [W] damage.
I suspect it was a typo, though.

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Doesn't matter--it's not Implement and [W], it's the Implement and Melee keywords a power would need to work with a Lifedrinker weapon, as Lifedrinker explicitly says "when you hit with a melee attack." Battle Cry is a Close burst 1, so it doesn't qualify even if it's not a typo.