How do YOU wing it?

Christopher Lambert · Nov 10, 2004

Some GMs don't like to wing it. Some aren't good at it (like me), some are uncomfortable with it, some are hard-core rules lawyers and consult the rulebooks, etc.

Let's give an example. Your players are onboard a floating magical castle, fighting an evil potentate. Said potentate grabs a magical pendant and activates it, tilting the castle wildly to the side. It doesn't affect him, but it affects the players.

IMO coming up with a save DC to avoid being tossed overboard is easy. However, what if a player, dangling off the side (now bottom) of the castle wants to jump through a window and slowly come around the potentate (in order to surprise him)? What if he wants to jump on the potentate's pet dragon (who was flying around, hoping to grab a morsel)? That's a moving target that gets AoOs and grapple checks!

Now you probably need a Jump DC. How do you figure it out? The rules don't really cover this situation.

Do you base it on the player's Jump score? Do you pick a high and heroic number (eg DC 30)? Do you base it on average Jump skill values for all the players? What if they vary quite a bit (you've got an agile rogue and a clunky dwarven cleric)? Do you even know how good these skills are?

Tinker Gnome · Nov 10, 2004

In the jumping situation I would just make up a DC that sounded right in my head and if they made it, then they could jump on the dragon.

Mystery Man · Nov 10, 2004

For a heroic number I'd add 10 to the average based on gauging a rough idea of the distance. Keeping in mind that it might be easier to hit a target while falling rather than jumping to something (I'm assuming this dragon is below him?) so you can cut the distance in half, and start calculating falling damage. Just in case he missed.

Mouseferatu · Nov 10, 2004

Galeros said:
In the jumping situation I would just make up a DC that sounded right in my head and if they made it, then they could jump on the dragon.

Bingo.

The fact is, folks, there's no "right answer" or "magic number." The system isn't so rigid that every specific task must match an exact scale of difficulty as compared to all other tasks.

When it comes to determining difficulties, I rarely look in the book even when there are hard-and-fast rules available. I make my judgment based on two factors:

A) How difficult does the task sound, and...

B) How dramatically cool would it be?

Yes, that means that a nigh-impossible really cool idea has a better chance of successs IMC than a very difficult, but not nigh-impossible, mundane skill use. What can I say, I like dramatic stunts and heroic PCs.

Umbran · Nov 10, 2004

If, however, you do want a bit of system behind this sort of thing, I suggest you pop over to Malhavoc Press and Check out Mike Mearls' Book of Iron Might. It has some good advice about how to deal with feats of derring do.

Sebastian Francis · Nov 10, 2004

There's a million things you can do re: jumping on the dragon (that's not like jumping a shark, is it?

).

Here's what I'd do:

1. "You run off the edge of the castle, jumping for all you're worth! The dragon is below you! Make a Jump check!" [DC=20] Unless I want to be a hardass, in which case DC=30. A lot of this depends on (a) How cinematic you want things and (b) Character levels.

2. If the PC *makes* his Jump check, I'll say this: "The dragon howls in surprise as you land heavily on his back. He begins swaying from side to side, deperately trying to shake you off! Quick! Make a Strength check to hang on!" [DC=20]

3. If the PC *misses* his Jump check, I'll say this: "You just fall short of the dragon's back. Quick! Make a Reflex save to try and grab his foot!" [DC=20]

At any rate, it's damn fun being a DM.

Saeviomagy · Nov 10, 2004

For the slanty castle? It's a balance check, not a save DC.

For the jump check? Depends how far they're jumping, conflated with the fact that to run, they need a balance check.

For landing on the dragon? Balance again.

Desdichado · Nov 10, 2004

Galeros said:
In the jumping situation I would just make up a DC that sounded right in my head and if they made it, then they could jump on the dragon.

Yep. It really can be that easy.

Either that, or you just tell the guy to burn a Hero Point...

MerakSpielman · Nov 10, 2004

I'm generally pretty good at winging it. I have run published modules, within which the PCs ran off on totally divergent tangents from the prepared plot. When I tell them afterwards that I pretty much abandoned the module a third of the way through, they look surprised and say they couldn't tell, and just assumed they were doing everything correctly.

A good number of my best DM moments and most memorable campaign events occured when I was totally winging it.

But I generally find it easy. I make up DCs off the top of my head depending on how difficult I imagine the task is: 10 - easy; 15 - moderate; 20 - tough; 25 - very difficult; 30 - nearly impossible; 40 - impossible.

Sebastian Francis · Nov 10, 2004

Saeviomagy said:
For the slanty castle? It's a balance check, not a save DC.

For the jump check? Depends how far they're jumping, conflated with the fact that to run, they need a balance check.

For landing on the dragon? Balance again.

I don't know if this stream-of-consciousness post of yours is in reply to my post, but it seems that you're suggesting my Reflex save/Strength check concept is somehow "incorrect."

Reflex save if he *misses the Jump check*. Reflex save to *avoid falling*. That's what Reflex saves are for, bright eyes.

If he *makes* the Jump check, Strength check to hang on, because I'm assuming that if he *makes* the jump, he's seated on the dragon's back. Your idea of a Balance check is okay too, but doesn't quite fit with how *I* was envisioning the situation.

At any rate, you seem to have missed the point entirely that there are *different* ways a DM could handle the said situation.

How do YOU wing it?

Christopher Lambert

First Post

Tinker Gnome

Explorer

Mystery Man

First Post

Mouseferatu

Hero

Umbran

Mod Squad

Sebastian Francis

First Post

Saeviomagy

Adventurer

Desdichado

Hero

MerakSpielman

First Post

Sebastian Francis

First Post

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