Problems with Telekinesis

Ashrem Bayle · May 31, 2002

I've always had a problem with Telekinesis (both the spell and the psionic power).

When you throw a creature into a wall or something, it only takes a bit of damage as if it fell 10' (1d6 damage) right?

Why not 1d6 for every 10 ft you threw them? Not unreasonable for a 5th level spell.

Your thoughts?

Also, if you have haste or schism, can you apply two uses of Telekinesis on the same object?

Say I can only lift 225 lbs. The object I want to lift is 450 lbs. Can I cast haste, or manifest schism, and cast/manifest telekinesis twice and then lift it?

Tar-Edhel · May 31, 2002

Ashrem Bayle said:
I've always had a problem with Telekinesis (both the spell and the psionic power).

When you throw a creature into a wall or something, it only takes a bit of damage as if it fell 10' (1d6 damage) right?

Why not 1d6 for every 10 ft you threw them? Not unreasonable for a 5th level spell.

Your thoughts?

It is a little underpowered if you use the violent thrust to push someone against a wall... But it can affects many creatures who are then prone. They might have lost their weapons (loosing at least an action to retrieve them). Those side effects can make all the difference in a fight.

For max damage, just use the sustained force to lift the target a few hundred feets (200 at 10th level after ten rounds) and let them fall. Look mom, it's raining monsters!

And there are other uses for that spell. The fact that one of its uses is underpowered does not make the spell underpowered. But it is cool to bash someone against a wall

so for that reason, I might consider a fort save to avoid being stunned or something like that. But that belongs to the realms of house rules.

Also, if you have haste or schism, can you apply two uses of Telekinesis on the same object?

Yes

Say I can only lift 225 lbs. The object I want to lift is 450 lbs. Can I cast haste, or manifest schism, and cast/manifest telekinesis twice and then lift it?

Not a chance, you bad munchkin!

You need to exert enough force to lift the object in one shot.

Haste gives you a partial action but it comes later in your turn. Two uses of Telekinesis on the same object will simply move the object twice, not double the weight you can move.

Ashrem Bayle · May 31, 2002

With schism, you have two minds working at once. I don't see why that wouldn't work.

As far as throwing people goes, why not? It's not unbalancing.

It will do 1d6 per level and allows a will save to negate. Thats hardly unbalanced for a 5th level power.

Tar-Edhel · May 31, 2002

Ashrem Bayle said:
With schism, you have two minds working at once. I don't see why that wouldn't work.

I don't know much about psionics but if Schism really is two minds at once, then you lift twice your usual amount. That is not the case with Haste though.

Ealli · Jun 1, 2002

I could see great use for telekinesis hurling people off walls and into other unpleasant areas.

DM_Matt · Jun 1, 2002

The real problem is that you can use violent thrust to hurl objects, and, when it comes down to it, you can do 1d6/level (uncapped) with them. Now if you can exert enough force on , say, a rock to hit someone for, say, 10d6, why cant you just hit them directly for that much?

If anything, you should be able to damage someone MORE with a direct hit, because some of the energy is expended in moving the rock to the target, and the rock realistically will not impart all of its force on the victim.

I rule 0 to allow this..I know it makes it slightly more powerful, as it does not require a nearby heavy movable object, but it just makes sense.

Gromm · Jun 1, 2002

You can't do 1d6/10' moved because they aren't speeding up. Falling damage from height increases because bodies increase in speed as they fall. TK moves them at one constant speed, they don't go faster and faster as you push them, they are pushed as fast at 10' as at 100'.
As far as the rocks, its the rock's mass thats doing the damage, not just its speed. If you throw a pebble at someone with TK, they aren't going to take damage. If you hit them with an anvil its a different story. To use over-simplified physics F(force or damage)=m(mass) * a (acceleration). Technically its a different formula that involves velocity squared and mass, but you get the idea.

Like was said above, TK them into the air if you want, but TK isn't really a combat damaging spell. You'd have better luck throwing them off cliffs or trying to put them next to fighters.

DM_Matt · Jun 1, 2002

Ya, but if you use a "violent thrust" to smack a big ol rock that hard at someone, shouldn't you be able to smack that someone directly just as hard?

(Psi)SeveredHead · Jun 1, 2002

You can use TK to throw multiple victims.

TK isn't a direct force, so you can't damage someone directly with it (that's what Concussion is for).

Ashrem Bayle · Jun 3, 2002

Ok then..

Lets look at it from a sustained force point of view. We know that (at high enough level) you can lift boulders.

What about when you force somebody against a wall and then begin crushing them?