D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Druids - what to do about them?

Felon · Jul 20, 2005

dagger said:
But they can still post if they want. Discussing ways to reign in the druid should be limited to the House Rules forum I think.

People should not post off-topic comments that will utterly hijack the thread if they have been specifically asked not to do so by the post's originator. That is disruptive and discourteous behavior.

You are, however, 100% correct that the House Rules forum is the proper place for such a discussion.

Brother MacLaren · Jul 20, 2005

MoogleEmpMog said:
Mirivor, if you want to discuss how broken or not broken druids are using YOUR HOUSERULES, that's fine;

I didn't see much in Mirivor's post that sounded like house rules. In my opinion, "there are magic shops" is not a rule; it is a default assumed setting that the DM is free to vary as he wishes.

Saying that there are no magic shops is not a "house rule," it is a campaign design element (like saying there are no elves). I view the two as different things.

And on to the druid power level for a second... perhaps the most absurd item in the DMG is the suit of Medium-sized dragonhide fullplate or breastplate. This suit of armor required the skin of a COLOSSAL dragon, and only one could be made from that hide, and it is available for what, twice the price of ordinary fullplate? Exactly how many colossal dragons are killed in the default setting?

mirivor · Jul 20, 2005

I have the special edition PHB... the one that is supposed to contain all the web errata. Near the bottom of the ability's description, after explaining how a druid can eventually do plants, and then elementals it states, "...she retains her own creature type (humanoid, in most cases)."

Next to last paragraph in your post, Patryn. It would not be logical to conclude that that only applies to her elemental forms... therefore she retains her normal creature type regardless of what she morphs into. This would really solve the whole Animal Growth problem right quickly, and is in fact how I have ruled behind the screen, although I confess that I never noticed that line before tonight.

Hypersmurf · Jul 20, 2005

mirivor said:
It would not be logical to conclude that that only applies to her elemental forms...

That's exactly how I've always seen it read.

As Polymorph (type changes), except where noted below... and one of the exceptions noted is that when a druid wildshaped into an elemental, she retains her own creature type.

-Hyp.

Endur · Jul 20, 2005

"Animal Growth" does not equal "Druid Growth."

It would have taken a three word modification to the spell "including wildshaped druids" to clearly make it so that "Animal Growth" affected Druids. The writers of the PHB declined to make that three word addition. The writers did not intend for this spell to affect Druids.

"Animal Growth" did not increase the size of Druids in any previous version of D&D (including 3.0).

Argue all you want, but the burden of evidence is on the side that says Animal Growth does not increase the size of Druids.

Endur · Jul 20, 2005

Brother MacLaren said:
And on to the druid power level for a second... perhaps the most absurd item in the DMG is the suit of Medium-sized dragonhide fullplate or breastplate. This suit of armor required the skin of a COLOSSAL dragon, and only one could be made from that hide, and it is available for what, twice the price of ordinary fullplate? Exactly how many colossal dragons are killed in the default setting?

Its entirely up to the GM as to whether and how to make special materials (or any magic items for that matter) available to the players.

In my campaign, players can only obtain Dragonhide armor by slaying a Dragon.

mirivor · Jul 20, 2005

Of course, Endur. I think that was the point. Brother Maclaren was stating how outrageous the armor could potentially be if allowed via simply purchasing it. That is one example of how a druid could get rapidly out of hand without some control exerted by his DM... not too mention how crazy that item sounds. Think of it this way...

You have just achieved a nigh-impossible task and slain a great red wyrm. Some quack comes along and offers you a piddly 16000 GP for it. What are you going to do? You would laugh at him all the way to hell and back again.

Not directly relevant to this thread, but it does demonstrate my previously stated need for DM control and direction to keep PCs, classes, spells, and just about every other aspect of the game in check.

Hypersmurf · Jul 20, 2005

Endur said:
Argue all you want, but the burden of evidence is on the side that says Animal Growth does not increase the size of Druids.

Huh?

It increases the size of animals. A druid who wildshapes into a flamingo changes type from humanoid to animal, per the Polymorph spell. He is an animal; he is exactly the thing the spell increases the size of.

-Hyp.

BSF · Jul 20, 2005

I know they tried to keep Wildshape within the existing framework of the rules. Make it chain off a series of spells with a similar effect. It was a nice idea, but I can't help but think they should have just written wildshape out explicitly as a feature with all the explicit conditions. Doing that would, in theory, clarify all the contention points of Wildshape.

beaver1024 · Jul 20, 2005

Thanee said:
No, it starts out pretty high and remains pretty high. No explosions involved.

The advantage of both the cleric and the druid, which is IMHO why they are consistently named among the most powerful classes, is, that they are powerful throughout all levels.

This indicates to me, that they are the best balanced classes in a way, actually.

Bye
Thanee

So our "improved" 3.5, that's supposed to fix problems from 3.0, has 9 classes (the vast majority of classes) completely unbalanced. Brilliant.

D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Druids - what to do about them?

Felon

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Brother MacLaren

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mirivor

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Hypersmurf

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Endur

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Endur

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mirivor

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BSF

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beaver1024

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