Inspiring pragmatic PC's to heroics

My players tend to be incredibly pragmatic and this often leads to situations where heroics, storytelling and roleplaying fall by the wayside in climactic moments which hold the greatest potential.

Let me give an example or two. We were recently playing an excellent Dungeon magazine adventure which culminated in a scene where a priest of Tharizdun was in the middle of carrying out a ritual to turn a newly born child into a vessel for his God, creating a dark avatar. The aim of the adventure, as stated, was to stop the ritual and rescue the child, who would go on to become a great Paladin if uncorrupted. However, the players. after a quick assessment that they may not be able to stop the ritual in time simply magic missled the baby.

I was somewhat taken aback at first, but decided to put no intervention in place to stop this from happening, as it was a legitimate solution in its own way. However, it certainly made a great heroic climax into a bit of a piffle.

In another recent adventure with a different party, the players encountered a minor climax in the form of a covey of hags disguised as elf maidens. The encounter had plenty of opportunities for roleplaying but the PC's only engaged in small talk for long enough to allow the Paladin to successfully detect evil at which point he charged into the fray.

My players usually enjoy a bit of roleplaying mixed in with the other elements of an adventure, but for some reason their hard headed way of playing often spoils the really enjoyable scenes.

I am looking for suggestions on getting around this if anyone has any. I don't want to stop the players from using their heads to find weaknessess in their opponents plans, as they enjoy doing it and it keeps me on my toes. However, I would like to find a way of making climactic scenes allow good opportunities for roleplaying without restricting the players tactical minds.

Well, you have smart players - I'd look upon that as a bonus, rather than a drawback. They were timely uses of both Mislead and Detect Evil.

I do see your point though; for my part, I kind of wish Detect Evil and Discern Lies didn't exist, because sometimes it seems that they only serve as plotkillers...

OK.... as a player that "covey of elf maidens" thing SCREAMS set up. I used Death Spell once to screw up a major summoning..... it needed to be live..... he, he... fond memories.

Limper Laws of Gaming One:

Kill all potential romantic intrests in game 80% will stab you in the back the other 20% will become leverage against you..... if you can't kill em avoid them.

rounser said:

Well, you have smart players - I'd look upon that as a bonus, rather than a drawback. They were timely uses of both Mislead and Detect Evil.

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Hmm, I think you misread what spell they used on the baby, Rounser. That was magic missile, not mislead. Which, although horrible, made me snicker a little at the image of the heroes hastily conferring before the bold wizard steps out to blast the least dangerous thing in the temple. What's the CR on a baby, anyway?

Kill all potential romantic intrests in game 80% will stab you in the back the other 20% will become leverage against you..... if you can't kill em avoid them.

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Yup...It's been commented upon in the past as a TSR cliche....I mean, as if an attractive woman who isn't a plot device, evil, or a monster-in-disguise would ever be interested in the PCs...

EDIT: I can recall one published adventure where something close to it happens, though; at the end of Legerdemaine one of the actors drops her romantic interest and declares her love for the PC who she's been picking on the most.

Hmm, I think you misread what spell they used on the baby, Rounser. That was magic missile, not mislead. Which, although horrible, made me snicker a little at the image of the heroes hastily conferring before the bold wizard steps out to blast the least dangerous thing in the temple. What's the CR on a baby, anyway?

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On second reading, yeah, you're right - I read "magic missled" as "magic misled". Okay, that's a bit different then!

Magic Missled a Baby?!?!

Was there a Paladin in this group?
"Was" would be the operative word IMNSHO. This would be such an abominable act, I would have had the Evil priests ritual still succeed...except it would have beenthe wizard that would have become the Avatar of the Dark God.


Geez, where have all the Heros gone?

Suggestion for rules enforcement of heroics:

You could adopt Hackmaster's honor system. It has the potential to change PC priorities and play style a lot towards what some of you DMs are looking for.

For example, killing that baby would probably constitute a huge honor hit, methinks...then again, knowing Hackmaster (which encourages the slaying of puppies and kittens in case they're anthraxians)...maybe not.

Inez Hull said:

Let me give an example or two.

[Snip]The aim of the adventure, as stated, was to stop the ritual and rescue the child, who would go on to become a great Paladin if uncorrupted. However, the players. after a quick assessment that they may not be able to stop the ritual in time simply magic missled the baby.

[Snip]
The encounter had plenty of opportunities for roleplaying but the PC's only engaged in small talk for long enough to allow the Paladin to successfully detect evil at which point he charged into the fray.

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Let me HOPE you are talking about 2 different parties right?

Sit down and talk to the players. Make them aware of that they are not playing a strategi game but a roleplaying game. While there may not be any wrong solutions in general there are wrong solutions for the indiviual characters. (Sacrificing others lifes is never an acceptable solution for a D&D hero (The baby situation). At least the PC's will not have played the game at the evil guys therms.) Being a hero sometimes means not taking the easy solution.

I wouldn't call them heroes. I would call them mercenaries.... Not good for that Paladin (Or any other who's depending on a good alignment).