D&D, only for children

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
A recent discussion on the Wizards boards was about advertising for D&D; how it seemed to be aimed primarily at children, teenagers and geeks, and about how D&D couldn't be regarded as an "adult's" game. (I'm including teenagers in the term "children" for the most part - call it the ages 10-17).

That led me to the following thought: What games are adult games? Are games primarily considered as being for children and weirdos?

Now, about 10-20 years ago the answer may well have been "very few". These days, with the upsurge in popularity of the European-style boardgames, I think games are getting out of the "only for kids" drawer.

Certainly, Chess and gambling card games have been out of there for a long time. Board games? Not so much. Things seem to be shifting, though. Note how Avalon Hill is producing a lot more board games this year because the market is growing... why is it? Surely there must be adult participation. (These games aren't cheap).

I feel this is *also* true of D&D. And it's not just because of changes in the game.

What D&D needs most of all to shed the ageist lable is for the people who were playing it as kids to grow up and become adults that play D&D. That is happening... and as it does, it becomes less and less of a kid's game.

Consider this: the Rolling Stones. Weren't they just a band for teenagers? Why are they still performing? Because the people they first played to have grown up and still go to their concerts- along with new people.

I'm almost 33. I'm fairly typical of a D&D gamer introduced during the big surge in the early 80s. I think most of those introduced to it as a "kid's game" back then are in the age range 30-40. There are some that are older, as well.

Children come into games like D&D easier because they're adaptable. They don't have lifetime hobbies yet. D&D becomes their hobby, and a lifetime pursuit for some of them.

If you saw the articles on D&D's 30th anniversary, and the articles published this year, D&D is becoming more and more accepted. The tag of "only for children" disappears as the age range of players expands.

Wizards primarily tries to sell the game to young people because they haven't got the existing hobbies to interfere with the game. D&D does require you to set aside a certain amount of time for it; more if you're the DM. Existing hobbies interfere. But get them early...

So. What happens once we get to D&D's 40th anniversary? The game will have been around as long as the Rolling Stones has been now. And, unlike the Rolling Stones, it'll probably still be around. Not only that, but the elder generation of D&D players will be in the range of 40-70. (err... how old *is* diaglo?)

With the ongoing generations, we also get D&D as a family game - a game all the family can play. How interesting!

Cheers!
 
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jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
MerricB said:
A recent discussion on the Wizards boards was about advertising for D&D; how it seemed to be aimed primarily at children and teenagers, and about how D&D couldn't be regarded as an "adult's" game.

That's an odd observation, given that most RPGs (including D&D) are specifically not marketed towards children, but to the 24-35 age demographic.

Wizards primarily tries to sell the game to young people because they haven't got the existing hobbies to interfere with the game.

This isn't true though (if you need a concrete example, look at their complete failure to support any version of the D&D Basic Game past its initial release). They've recently shifted towards this focus (i.e., they're finally promoting the Basic Game a bit), but 'children' and 'newcomers' have never been the primary target audience for D&D 3x (or most other RPGs, for that matter).
 

philreed

Adventurer
Supporter
jdrakeh said:
but 'children' and 'newcomers' have never been the primary target audience for D&D 3x (or most other RPGs, for that matter).

I think you're right. I remember in the early 80s when I'd see tons of D&D ads in my comics. I would think if they were targeting kids we'd be seeing ads in the Nick and Disney mags/comics. Whenever I've flipped through one of those I haven't seen any D&D ads.

Wasn't one of the big ad pushes for 3e in Maxim (did I mangle that name?) magazine? (It was one of the "mens" magazines.) That's certainly not aimed at kids.
 

jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
philreed said:
I think you're right. I remember in the early 80s when I'd see tons of D&D ads in my comics. I would think if they were targeting kids we'd be seeing ads in the Nick and Disney mags/comics. Whenever I've flipped through one of those I haven't seen any D&D ads.

I think that, as the hobby has grown older, so has the bulk of publishers moved away from marketing towards children. Arguably, in the beginning, this was necessary - but since that time, the hobby has established a large fanbase (the majority of whom fall into the age range I mentioned in my previous post), and publishers know this. Gone are the days of creating a fanbase - why waste resources doing that when you can market directly to one that already exists?

Also, purchasing trends and rising price points have necessitated a shift in target age groups - how many 10 year-old kids do you see with enough allowance to buy a $35+ RPG book every week? Established fans in the 24-35 age range can (and do) usually pick up a handful of those books every week. It makes a lot more sense to market your products to the people that can easily afford to buy them and do so frequently, than to market them to the demographic that can only afford them once in a great while and tend to get sidetracked by other pursuits.

Wasn't one of the big ad pushes for 3e in Maxim (did I mangle that name?) magazine? (It was one of the "mens" magazines.) That's certainly not aimed at kids.

I'm not a subscriber to Maxim but, yes, I believe you're right - they did run a lot of ads in Maxim, PC Gamer and a few other adult-oriented publications during the run-up to the 3.0 release. I saw very little marketing aimed at non-hobbyists or children.
 


Indeed, I think one of the strengths of D&D is that it grows with us. I'm still basically enjoying the same game that I started playing 19 years ago. Sure, the level of sophistication has changed, but as always, the game is what we make it.

As far as specifically targeting a younger audience, I think that it's a great idea, as long as it doesn't alienate the rest of the fan-base. Most of the time when I'm shopping in a gaming store, the kids I see coming in make a beeline straight for the CCGs.
 

mhacdebhandia

Explorer
I see advertisements for D&D in computer game magazines. Strikes me that the teenage game-playing demographic is better than the Nick/Disney magazine demographic - older, more disposable money, already interested in fantasy games in some cases.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
D&D has never been just for kids, rather, they're a nice group to target in marketing because they have lots of time to fill up and generally have a fair amount of disposable income. It's a good way to build a base of life-long players.

I know a few people who thought of D&D as just an adolescent thing to do, but as you point out, so was listening to most rock music. And now, even grandmothers may be humming along to Led Zepplin and singing "Squeeze my lemon, until the juice runs down my leg."
How about that?
I actually saw wargames and RPGs as a chance to play more adult games with greater challenges and correspondingly greater feelings of accomplishment.

Realistically, sometimes people actually do move out of certain passtimes as they grow and mature. But a good many other passtimes grow old with us. We don't graduate out of liking rock music to liking crooners and Lawrence Welk. Chances are we don't quite "dig" all of the new innovations and styles that come after our time as we start to get more set in our ways, but that doesn't automatically mean rejection.
There's always some attrition as other things we encounter in our lives take precedence and that helps keep us aging players from being the prime marketing demographic, but I'm already hooked and too much marketing to me is just preaching to the choir.
 

jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
mhacdebhandia said:
I see advertisements for D&D in computer game magazines. Strikes me that the teenage game-playing demographic is better than the Nick/Disney magazine demographic - older, more disposable money, already interested in fantasy games in some cases.


Maybe... except that most video game players aren't, according to sales demographics, teenagers.
 

gizmo33

First Post
MerricB said:
I'm almost 33. I'm fairly typical of a D&D gamer introduced during the big surge in the early 80s. I think most of those introduced to it as a "kid's game" back then are in the age range 30-40. There are some that are older, as well.

As one of those "early 80s surge" people, my recollection is that I was not aware of DnD being a "kids game" at all. In fact, DnD was towards to upper end of challenge and very mature as far as content, vocabulary level, etc. (I think the fact that it was "Gygaxian" pretty much says enough).

I would almost say that - a game created for 12-year-olds might not be the same thing as a game that interests 12-year-olds. I know as a 12-year-old, we would rather play ADnD badly than play basic DnD well.
 

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