Star Wars: Credo of the Grey Jedi . . . I chose something else!

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:

Except that the Force has nothing to do with humans...there ISN'T a middle ground.

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I'm not talking about "humans in the fictional world of Star Wars", I'm talking about real live people. People who watch the movies. Um, like, "What is George Lucas trying to say about the human condition though the Force?" Watching players answer that question for themselves; or rather, asking, "What are you trying to say about the human condition through the Force?" Or whatever the question is, who cares. You know what I'm getting at, though.

Imagine, you could feel and control the Force like Jedi do. Let you choose Light side. Still you are a human beeing, not a saint and there are temptations, weaknesses, attractions wich can cause you to stagger and fall in your way even if you have good intentions. And feeling the power of the Force can even increase the defects in your nature as it is known that passions are strongest in the youth and are easier to master in older age or in a weakened state of the body like illness. The only way to the Light then is to rise up every time you fall and continiue the life-long quest. This is the first problem - problem of our nature which cannot be changed into flawless in short time even if we want to. So the example of Mace Windu channeling and controlling his inner darkness within his saberfight style is quite realistic - it is better to know and control the inner darkness then to deny it, unless we are strong enaugh to transform or clean and sublime its energy completely. So we can declare high dogmas and follow the outer rules of High Concil, yet we can feel the tension between the ideals and reality and that tension can bring to a fall, to release of anger etc. The higher the goals - the more danger to fall, because of the difference between our nature and the ideals. Second problem is that there are seldom clear options of best actions - for every desision and every choice in life we pay. Example for this is Jolee Bindo who spared life of his wife who was a Sith - this desision is the only one true to make in my opinion. But there is always a prise to pay and there are seldom perfect desisions to take. So even if the want to be on Light Side most of the jeddi are following the grey land like Gandalf the Grey

Erekose said:

I chose not to choose either: I chose something else.

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In the first trilogy, this was a pretty simple choice - go with the Light. After all, in the first trilogy this was a straight up choice between good and evil, between joy and sorrow, between hate and love, and between life and death. Light and Dark were conceived in terms of Western symbology, and as in a classic Western fairy tale, love conquers all, providing the tool to defeat not only evil, but in complete conquest to redeem even in the most fallen soul.

But in the prequel trilogy, things change completely. Light and dark are conceived not in the terms of the original trilogy, but in the terms of the Yin and Yang. Compassion moves from the light side to the dark side. Love moves from the light side to the dark side. The conflict moves from between that of good and evil, but (in D&D terms) something closer to law versus chaos. The Jedi are revealed to be as despicable in many ways as the Sith, and the conflict between them not the drama of good vs. evil but the petty conflict of two tribes each of which desires absolute authority. The truly damning moment comes when Obi Wan abandons his best friend to burn, but Palpatine rushes to have compassion on his failed and beaten apprentice. Love isn't the solution to the problem, but (in the form of attachment) the cause of it. Proper behavior moves from something like right or wrong, to something closer to 'balance' - something no character in the trilogy actually displays least of all the Jedi.

So yeah, after the second trilogy, the only sane choice IS 'I chose something else'. I'm far more sympathetic after the prequel trilogy to the notion that the world would be better off without the stupid Jedi priesthood and their inhuman religion. You wouldn't want to side with the murderous Sith either, but the Jedi - merciless Mace, compassionless Yoda, Obi Wan and his 'true from a certain point of view' and casual mind control - don't come off that well either.

I think a gray Jedi is not really possible when one stays within the quasi religious trappings of the Sith and Jedi order.

If there ever would be a gray Jedi would imo likely be a "Renaissance" Jedi, forsaking ancient rituals and archaic lightsabers for blaster and science while seeing the Force as a force of nature much like gravity to be measured and quantified. But we will likely never see a Jedi like this anywhere near a canon source.

This opens up another issue. What defines a Sith? Is every force who does mean things to others automatically a Sith even when he laughs about their rituals and codex and doesn't want anything to do with their fairytales and galaxy conquering fantasies? Same goes for Jedi and nice force users.

Ayia Celebrim! Religion is a rigid and insufficient substitute of "the wisdom of the heart" and its dogmas can bound the spirit in the way and narrow the vision. Estel is a much better way Well this a different realm already yet the one you familiar with as I read from your nickname

I think it is quite important point you mentioned of Yin/Yang or Good/Evil opposites in relation to jedi or sith. Nowdays it is common to see Good/Evil as dualistic indispensible sides of the One reality like Yin and Yang in the prequel trilogy. This is a completely wrong view which leads to the justification of the Evil as a necessary balancing force to the Good. I often saw such viewpoint in the real life as an exuse for mean things. The solution of this problem is a proper definition of Good and Evil and this is realy a very interesting question especially in complicated situations where not only the compassion but the wisdom is required too. As if you like to help an unemployed friend and keep lending him money knowing that he wastes it for drinks, so wiser way is to help him in finding the job and be less generous with money And even with good intentions we still can take stupid decisions and learn from the experience.

But why you called Yoda compassionless?

All this talk of Kreia and no mention of Jolee Bindo? For shame.

Han Solo is the grey side, just not a jedi. But Jedi aren't on the dark side either, so really that's a wash.

Questionable ethics, selfish ends, skirting around laws and even outright breaking them albeit for one's own profit, smuggling, seducing, helpful to others only to feed his own desires, always looking for a quick cred, a safe place to stay hidden...

He isn't an Imperial, some malicious, self-righteous controller. But he isn't on the side of the Jedi either.

At the end of the original film he joins forces with the Rebellion, but he can be seen as slowly coming around to that way of living in the following movies too.

Erekose said:

Choose Light. Choose Dark. But who would want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose either: I chose something else.

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My first thought on the piece: This is defining yourself as what you are not, rather than as what you *are*. I choose something else? Fine. What is it that you choose? You wanna do your own thing? Cool. Tell me what that thing actually is, not what it isn't.