M&M newbie question

I've bought M&M 2nd edition and I'm working my way through the rules. I ran some combats between the hero archetypes, and I'm confused about how they are created. How does the Weapon Master have a defense of +14? I thought the max was +10 for her power level, unless there is a trade-off. (which I don't see here). It seems like her attack is her base attack of +8 plus her device bonus of +4, but shouldn't this be limited to +10 as well? The same goes for the defense bonus of the Speedster.

craftyrat

those examples are using trade offs to accomplish the over the PL limit for defense and attack.

Keep in mind:
Defense affects your Toughness inversely and vice versa.
Attack affects your Save DC bonus inversely and vice versa.

Weapons Master:

Defense 14 means that her cap for her toughness is reduced by 4 becoming 6. This also limits her CON bonus to a +6 as well.

Melee or Ranged attack 12 means that the max Save DC bonus is reduced by 2 becoming 8. Note that it says melee OR ranged, you get the appropriate one based on if you choose blast or strike as her device's power, so if the power is strike her Melee attack is +12 and her ranged is +8, reverse that for picking blast. BTW this trade off limits her STR bonus to a +8.

The reason that her attack was bought to a +8 and then either ranged or melee is increased to +12 is because it's cheaper to raise just your melee or ranged using the attack focus feat. If you want to be equally effective just pay for the attack you want without using attack focus.

So when she uses her device she adds +12 to the attack roll but can only add 8 to the damage save for her device.



Speester:

The speedster has a defense bonus of +15 which means the max that his toughness can be is +5. The max he could get by increasing his CON is +5 and this effectively limits his CON bonus to +5 as well or a CON of 20. The build only bought a CON bonus of +2 which kind of hides the trade off.

In short if you see something over PL assume a trade off even if the reduced value wasn't purchased at max value.



A good place for help is www.atomicthinktank.com.

HTH,

Gil

Gilwen said:

The speedster has a defense bonus of +15 which means the max that his toughness can be is +5. The max he could get by increasing his CON is +5 and this effectively limits his CON bonus to +5 as well or a CON of 20. The build only bought a CON bonus of +2 which kind of hides the trade off.

Click to expand...

Yep, the Speedster is under par on defense and offense (unless one of the Super-Speed power feats you take is a mighty strike, which would be 12 damage and balance perfectly with the 8 attack).

Good breakdown Gilwen.

craftyrat said:

I've bought M&M 2nd edition and I'm working my way through the rules. I ran some combats between the hero archetypes, and I'm confused about how they are created. How does the Weapon Master have a defense of +14? I thought the max was +10 for her power level, unless there is a trade-off. (which I don't see here). It seems like her attack is her base attack of +8 plus her device bonus of +4, but shouldn't this be limited to +10 as well? The same goes for the defense bonus of the Speedster.

craftyrat

Click to expand...

The trade-off rules can be found on page 24 of the book.

Here's a good question someone brought up recently: By the book, can you buy more ranks than you have power levels in a power? For example, Immunity; can you have 30 ranks in immunity if you pay for it with your 150 points? If not, how can the Evil Robot found in the villains chapter have Immunity 30?

Henry said:

Here's a good question someone brought up recently: By the book, can you buy more ranks than you have power levels in a power? For example, Immunity; can you have 30 ranks in immunity if you pay for it with your 150 points? If not, how can the Evil Robot found in the villains chapter have Immunity 30?

Click to expand...

The rule is if the power has a Save DC then it cannot go above the Power Level limit unless there are tradeoff's invovled. All other powers can buy as much as they want. Immunity does not have a save DC and so is immune to the PL limit.

There are exceptions like adding the damaging extra to a power (i don't remember if this is in the book or in the official rules forum that Steve does over on atomicthinktank.com.).
For example if you buy Telekinesis it normally does not have a Save DC so you can pretty much buy as many ranks as you can afford. Now if you add the damaging extra to the power allowing you to do damage then you can only apply ranks of the TK power upto the PL limit when determining the Save DC for the power; for other applications of TK in this case you can by more ranks than the PL limit.

Gil

It depends on the power. If the power doesn't effect your combat trade-offs, then you aren't generally limited by PL. For example, I could have Quickness 20 even as a PL 10 character as that power in no way impacts any of my saves or combat bonuses (or anything else capped by PL).

Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) doesn't push my Saves past my power level, it simply says that against a certain given effect, I automatically make my saving throw. It's therefore legal at, well, pretty much any PL (if a PC, as it depends on you having the points...if an NPC, this isn't an issue), but should be carefully looked at by a GM as it could derail some ideas said GM may or may not have concerning his games.

Gilwen beat me to the punch...and also has the right if it in the above explanation.

yeah! I finally beat someone to the punch!


gil

Thanks Gilwen!

craftyrat