"Probability for Game Designers": kick-butt article

Piratecat

Sesquipedalian
I ran into this over on Gamasutra. It's written for computer game designers, but it's essential for DMs too; it's a lot easier to avoid TPKs when you can calculate the chance of multiple successful saves! Look for follow-up articles on statistics for game designers, then how to tie them together.

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20061018/sigman_01.shtml

Amusing note: this was brought home to me when I was writing Of Sound Mind, and Sagiro pointed out that an average party had something like a 60% chance of someone dying just from climbing down a rope. . .

Anyways, hope this is useful to some folks.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Len

Prodigal Member
Don't you mean "it's a lot easier to cause TPKs when..."? :)

I'm glad to see that Gamasutra is free-to-read again. I've seen some interesting articles there, but not enough to subscribe when they went members-only.
 

Rhamphoryncus

First Post
Their debunking of myths seems valid. However, they fail on many of the fine details.

  • "When you roll a six-sided die, the chance of rolling a “6” is 1/6 = 16.7%—assuming a fair ‘throw’ and a perfectly manufactured die, of course. This 16.7% is not a guess, nor anything of the like. It is as good as fact*."
    16.7% is not a fact, it is an approximation. There's nothing wrong with using approximations in this context, but not claim you're not doing it! It seems that using ≈ instead of = would be appropriate here, but I'm not sure as it's not in common usage.
  • "(1/6)4" should be "(1/6)⁴". Minor editting problem (compared to the other problems.)
  • "The gist is, if you flip a coin 1 million times, you’ll expect the heads and tails split to be close to 50%. But don’t expect the NUMBER of heads flips to equal the NUMBER of tails flips — in fact, it’s very likely that they will be off by hundreds or even thousands. Remember, you could have 10,000 less heads than tails and the division would still be very close to 50%/50% (49%/51%, to be exact)."
    Although this could be a typo or rounding, I don't think it is. Most likely the other thought that going from 50% to 49% was a 10,000 difference, and didn't realize it applied again when going from 50% to 51%.
  • Regarding seeding a pseudorandom number generator with the time, "But for high-intensity games with tons and tons of random number generations, sometimes that’s not random enough."
    Actually, with a good PRNG, the time is enough. It's always predictable though, if you put enough effort into it. For most games that doesn't matter, since it's easier to use a cheat code or edit a save file. However, if money is involved, or it's an online game that you can't otherwise cheat at, the effort becomes worthwhile, and you need to use a cryptographically secure PRNG—this CSPRNG must be seeded from a CSRNG (not pseudorandom), usually fed network or harddrive timings (software), or thermal noise (hardware), thus supplying your "entropy".

Despite the faults, I think the article is still worth reading. Just be aware of what it glosses over. :heh:
 

Psion

Adventurer
Piratecat said:
Amusing note: this was brought home to me when I was writing Of Sound Mind, and Sagiro pointed out that an average party had something like a 60% chance of someone dying just from climbing down a rope. . .

Reminds me of an old Call of Cthulhu GM we had. He was dreadfully fearful of math in general, so needless to say, probability was stark terror to him. Our characters would routinely do things like wreck as we run our car of the road on the way to the adventure site, just because he'd inflict 10 drive skill rolls on us under the assumption that since we have a good driver, it'd be alright...
 


Piratecat

Sesquipedalian
Rhamphoryncus said:
Despite the faults, I think the article is still worth reading. Just be aware of what it glosses over. :heh:
Man, I love smart people who know what they're talking about. Thanks! Good clarifications - and welcome to the boards.
 

Plane Sailing

Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
I enjoyed the article, apart from their determination to turn everything into percentages at the earliest possible opportunity, when keeping the fractional numbers would have made their point more clearly. Presumably this is something to do with writing for game writers?

I was particularly gratified to see the explanations of converse probability (which has given lots of problems for people who didn't understand it) and the 'gamblers fallacy'.
 

Piratecat said:
Man, I love smart people who know what they're talking about. Thanks! Good clarifications - and welcome to the boards.

Since you brought it up Piratecat, when is Of Sound Mind 2 coming out? :lol:

I only ask because I was looking through one of my old Dungeon magazines on the weekend and it had a release date for OSM2 which was a couple of years ago!

Olaf the Stout
 

Rhamphoryncus

First Post
Piratecat said:
Man, I love smart people who know what they're talking about. Thanks! Good clarifications - and welcome to the boards.
Thanks. :D

Plane Sailing said:
I enjoyed the article, apart from their determination to turn everything into percentages at the earliest possible opportunity, when keeping the fractional numbers would have made their point more clearly. Presumably this is something to do with writing for game writers?
It's much easier to understand a percentage, especially when your numerator isn't one. What's difference between 8546/48618 and 2486/14558? 887080/176945211. Compare that with 17.578% − 17.077% = 0.501%.

As proof of how easy it is to mess this stuff up, I transposed two digits during my calculations, and the fraction and percentage results were substantially different. :uhoh:
 

Solarious

Explorer
Very true: fractions are okay when you're going basic, but whenever you get anywhere remotely complicated, percentages are superior.
 

Remove ads

Top