War Mage plus Mage of the Arcane Order...

Pbartender · Dec 11, 2006

One of our players is building a new character. He is considering going through the trouble of prestige classing a War Mage into Mage of the Arcane Order, with the goal of adding a bit of flexibility to the War Mage spell list.

The question that pops up is that the War Mage has several class abilities (namely ignoring Arcane Spell Failure for certain classes of armor) that apply only to War Mage spells (forgive for not having the exact wording available... I left Complete Arcane at home). Do these abilities or do they not apply to spells that are cast using the Spell Pool?

Sejs · Dec 11, 2006

Pbartender said:
Do these abilities or do they not apply to spells that are cast using the Spell Pool?

It's a gray area. The Mage of the Arcane Order in CompArc is a rewrite (and minor tweaking) of the class as it appeared in Tome and Blood - well before considerations like the Warmage and similar came into the picture.

My personal assessment: if the spell in question appears on the Warmage class spell list, it's a Warmage spell. If it doesn't, then it's not. Means no Warmage Edge, no Ignore ASF, none of that.

KarinsDad · Dec 11, 2006

I do not have my books in front of me, but I'm not sure a Warmage can do this in the first place.

Aren't most non-Evocation spells considered not on his spell list?

Hence, he might be only able to pick up a few spells that could normally be gained by Advanced Learning.

Also, isn't there a prerequisite that Mages of the Arcane Order have to be able to prepare and cast 2nd level arcane spells? Warmages cast spells spontaneously.

Thanee · Dec 11, 2006

That's what Arcane Preparation is for.

However, I don't think the spellpool enables a character to actually cast the called spells. The character must be able to do so already, at least technically (i.e. the spell must be on the class spell list), in order to benefit from that ability. For a warmage this is pretty much pointless.

Bye
Thanee

Thanee · Dec 11, 2006

When your warmage player wants some versatility, maybe the Arcane Disciple feat from Complete Divine is the right one.

Bye
Thanee

Machiavelli · Dec 11, 2006

Good point, Thanee. That's one extra spell per spell level that he can more or less pick at will, depending upon how loosely you regulate the domains he can choose.

Dare I say it, he COULD pick up levels in Mystic Theurge after 3 levels in Cleric. That would open up MANY more spell options, at the cost of 3 levels of warmage spellcasting. He'd also miss out on the higher-level warmage metamagic, but that's not a big deal if he wants the alternative spellcasting options badly enough.
Warmage 11/ Cleric 3/ Mystic Theurge 6, perhaps?

Otherwise, yeah, Arcane Disciple. Unfortunately, I know of no prestige class that grants spellcasting advancement in two arcane classes simultaneously, or else I'd suggest it.

szilard · Dec 11, 2006

Machiavelli said:
Otherwise, yeah, Arcane Disciple. Unfortunately, I know of no prestige class that grants spellcasting advancement in two arcane classes simultaneously, or else I'd suggest it.

Ultimate Magus. Complete Mage.

-Stuart

Machiavelli · Dec 11, 2006

Ah. Complete Mage. I've stopped buying books, and therein lies my problem. I'll have to obtain the information by some other means, or continue to be ignorant (which actually suits me just fine)

So, yeah, go drop $40 on a book and your player will have his "options". Or make something up, since you're the DM, if creating prestige classes is something you're into.

Or go for Arcane Disciple. I can't stress enough how cool that feat is to me.

Pbartender · Dec 11, 2006

I understand that there are other options -- and the player in question is considering them as backups -- but that's beside the point.

We're trying to decide how Spell Pool spells interact with class abilities and spell lists that aren't specifically Sorcerer/Wizard.

For example, the same question could be applied to a Bard who prestige classes into Mage of the Arcane Order... "A bard can cast bard spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance." As a MotAO, he's gaining Bard caster levels, but do his Spell Pool spells count as Bard spells for the purposes of wearing armor?

Without any particular official guidance, I know this falls under "DM's Choice"... but the group is curious to hear other opinions before we make a final decision.