The Dukes of Hell

Celebrim said:

The writers would have us believe that the heirarchy of hell is more unstable the the lords of the abyss.

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Keep in mind that the changes in the hierarchy have taken place over many thousands of years. During that time, it's remained remarkably stable, considering how cut-throat and ambitious devils are - nearly all the nobles that existed all those thousands of years before the Reckoning are still doing the same jobs today.

Compare this with the Abyss, where minor demon lords and entire Abyssal layers rise and fall continuously.

So, here we are in the very embodiment of lawful evilness, and titles have no fixed meaning, no traditional role, no force of law, but they are merely the whim of the ruler that bestows them.

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You've got it all wrong. They certainly have traditions and force of law, but each archdevil represents a different, incompatible strain of Order. That's a major theme in the Nine Hells, that there are nine of them, nine flavors of Law that each seek to be dominant over the others. Baalzebul's order is not Belial's order, for all they might be allies. Dispater's order is not the order of Mephistopheles, and it is certainly not the order of Levistus.

So nine different hierarchies, nine different ways of ordering the multiverse, nine visions of tyrannical Order, the lesser eight subordinate for the time being to Asmodeus' greater hierarchy. But Asmodeus' rule is tenuous, depending on keeping his subordinates focused on one another.

BOZ said:

83. Other Dark Eight members (Corin, Dagos, Paerza, Baalzephon, Furcas), Cantrum (long dead)

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Baalzephon and Furcas were mentioned in 1st edition. They both formally worked for Dispater. Baalzephon was Dispater's Prime Minister, and Furcas led 12 companies of barbazu.

What's more, it was the same Baalzephon and Furcas in the Dark Eight in Planescape. They were the only two remaining originals. FC2 says the original Furcas has finally died, though, because its authors apparently liked the idea of killing off an interesting character for no reason.

Baalzephon also plays a major role in Ivid the Undying.

89. Bechard, Buldumech, Guland, Silcharde, Sphandor (pit fiends in service to Mephistopheles)

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They were all mentioned in Dragon #76, page 28. Of course, this was kind of a bad call on the part of the FC2 authors, since the whole point of Mephistopheles' Molikroth ploy was to weed out his disloyal pit fiends (and Dragon #76 makes it clear they were all disloyal, encouraged to be so by Baalzebul). They should all be dead. Someone should have died during that episode, or why did he bother?

Glwa. Here’s a nice odd case. You might think that the first place she is ever mentioned is FC2, as it is maintained for almost all of Mammon’s appearances that Glasya was his consort. Not so.

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Oo, interesting find! I thought the name Glwa sounded familiar! This was actually a nice touch on the part of the FC2 authors.

Your theory sounds plausible, too.

Shemeska said:

But on a more serious note, I don't envy Schwalb and Laws for having to try to make a coherent book from all the contradictory and scattered sources on Baator, and at the same time try to avoid pissing folks off by what they didn't include.

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Not to mention the re-occurance of names amongst both demons and devils (Dagon in particular comes to mind, but I think there were others.) I guess that's what you can expect when both of them dip into the same well of inspirational sources though.

Ripzerai said:

Baalzephon and Furcas were mentioned in 1st edition. They both formally worked for Dispater. Baalzephon was Dispater's Prime Minister, and Furcas led 12 companies of barbazu.

What's more, it was the same Baalzephon and Furcas in the Dark Eight in Planescape. They were the only two remaining originals. FC2 says the original Furcas has finally died, though, because its authors apparently liked the idea of killing off an interesting character for no reason.

Baalzephon also plays a major role in Ivid the Undying.

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they sure were! not sure how i missed them... they were on the list in MM2, and mentioned in Dragon 75.

Ripzerai said:

They were all mentioned in Dragon #76, page 28. Of course, this was kind of a bad call on the part of the FC2 authors, since the whole point of Mephistopheles' Molikroth ploy was to weed out his disloyal pit fiends (and Dragon #76 makes it clear they were all disloyal, encouraged to be so by Baalzebul). They should all be dead. Someone should have died during that episode, or why did he bother?

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d'oh! yeah, they sure were mentioned in that article. and yeah, i've been wondering that myself - if he was trying to weed people out of his court, why is everyone still there?

here's my idea. you know how the pit fiends in the Dark Eight get killed and replaced, their identities changed to match their predeccessor? well, we can apply that same system here...

Ripzerai said:

Oo, interesting find! I thought the name Glwa sounded familiar! This was actually a nice touch on the part of the FC2 authors.

Your theory sounds plausible, too.

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yeah, i thought so myself. i just happened to be looking at that chart and i said, "hey, wait a minute..."

OK. I think I learned everything from the other thread that I needed to learn for this little project. To summarize the history of the Lords of the Nine (rather than the history of Baator, per se):

Asmodeus is probably the oldest devil in existence, probably the first of his kind. When he first came to Baator, he brought a number of his servants with him to set up a ruling hierarchy that would serve his purposes. Among the original eight lords he chose to rule his Hell were apparently long-time compatriots Dispater, Mephistopheles, and one who became lord of the seventh layer, whose name is lost to pre-history. In-fighting, backstabbing, betrayals, and assassinations led to the other 5 lords being dethroned or destroyed, and their replacements were in turn replaced over and over by now-forgotten lords in the ensuing millennia. One by one, over time, Zariel, Mammon, Belial, Levistus, and Beherit took charge over the remaining five layers and the Lords of the Nine stabilized and cemented their rule.

Asmodeus was not entirely happy with this arrangement, however, and always sought ways to remake the Lords of the Nine more to his liking. He brokered an unprecedented deal with Tiamat, giving her free reign over Avernus as she saw fit, so long as she helped to keep out invaders and made no trouble for the Lord of the First or the devils therein (Zariel also used this arrangement to make it seem that Tiamat was in charge of Avernus, letting her work behind the scenes); thusly, Asmodeus exerts direct control over “both ends” of the Hells. His perfect prodigy came to the Hells in the form of a fallen archon named Triel. Asmodeus groomed his new discovery, renaming him Baalzebul, and transforming him into a unique baatezu; Asmodeus then removed his old compatriot, the lord of the Seventh, and set Baalzebul in his place. Levistus betrayed Asmodeus by slaying his consort, so he locked the treacherous lord away in a block of ice, and replaced him with the ever-loyal Geryon. Beherit and his consort also betrayed him by attempting to circumvent the natural order of Baator by producing a descendant to replace Asmodeus, so Asmodeus slew them all. Asmodeus offered his prize pupil the opportunity to rule the Sixth layer, so Baalzebul placed his vassal Moloch as lord of the Sixth. With this setup complete, Asmodeus enjoyed nearly full control over Baator for millennia until betrayal came. (Thus, we have the 1st edition hierarchy.)

Baalzebul and his allies, Moloch, Zariel, and Belial, struck against the other four lords, Mephistopheles, Dispater, Mammon, and Geryon (who also wanted to unseat and replace Asmodeus on their own terms), beginning a conflict that became known as the Reckoning. Only Geryon remained loyal to Asmodeus, betraying the rest at a crucial moment. As a punishment to his former favorite, Baalzebul, Asmodeus transformed him into a slug-like creature and banished his vassal Moloch to Avernus; Moloch’s consort Malagarde the Hag Countess was allowed to rule in his stead for a time. Geryon was also removed from his position, with Levistus reinstated in his place. Except for Dispater, the lords of the Nine took on deceptions for a time to change the face of the Hells after the failure of the Reckoning. Belial began to share power with his daughter Fierna and stayed in the background.

Bel, a powerful pit fiend on Avernus began to share power with Zariel. In time, he betrayed her fully, trapping her within the plane and leeching energy from her. Asmodeus was content with the status quo of the current lords of the Nine, and they ruled for many years until the present day. Asmodeus always wished to have his daughter Glasya as one of the nine lords, but her disobedient behavior made her unlikely as an ally. (Thus, we have the Planescape Lords of the Nine.)

In time, Geryon’s despair over losing his position continued to increase, and he was torn apart by Asmodeus. His death released great energies which Asmodeus used to empower Glasya, who had eventually come around to his way of thinking; when combined with the recent death of the Hag Countess, this allowed him to finally install Glasya as the new lord of the Sixth. The remainders of Geryon’s energies continue to linger on as a vestige, a phenomenon that Asmodeus keenly wishes to study for his own use. Levistus and Belial worry that they will be the next to be replaced, and all the other lords shudder in fear at Asmodeus’ displays of power and guile.

With these key points of this history in mind, I’m going to attempt to figure out where the rest of the nobility of Hell fits into the power structure. Who did they serve, and when, and what were their positions, etc.

One thing to keep in mind is that there was, some time before the Reckoning, a major reshuffling of pit fiends. Baalzephon and Furcas worked for Dispater originally, and Zaebos and Zapan worked for Belial. Yet by the time of the Reckoning, each of the Dark Nine worked for a separate Lord of the Nine. Sometime between the time that Cantrum recruited them and the time they finally revealed themselves they managed to not only get themselves transferred but to climb to the top of the military ranks on their layers.

Perhaps Bel was transferred at the same time. It's clear than many others besides the core Nine were in on the scheme, or the armies wouldn't have followed the Dark Nine in preference to their own lords. Bel might have been a second-in-command of some sort, ready to step in to do his duty should something happen to his commander.

So, hypothetically, I'll say that immediately pre-Reckoning the ranks looked like this:

Avernus - Dagos (he's the most like Bel, and still Bel's superior even today if you believe Hellbound)
Dis - Furcas (because Baalzephon had a non-military position in Dis, it makes sense that she'd make her way up the military ranks elsewhere)
Minauros - Zimimar (no contest)
Stygia - Baalzephon (easy access to the Styx seems appropriate for the future Supply Master)
Phlegethos - Zaebos (Belial's lieutenant)
Malbolge - Zapan (experience leading cornugons)
Maladomini - Corin (the future spymaster fits the Lord of the Flies)
Cania - Pearza (whose interest in research meshes with Mephistopheles' consort Baalphegor)
Nessus - Cantrum (the leader)

Many of these pit fiends could have worked for their respective Lords all along. Primarily, Baalzephon managed to get herself transferred to the layer of Dispater's ally Geryon, and Zapan managed to get himself moved to the layer of Belial's ally Moloch.

Was it during this period of reshuffling that Bel betrayed Dispater for his enemy Zariel? Or perhaps he secretly worked for Zariel all along, and he was a mole in Dispater's court, only revealing his true allegiance when the Reckoning began - and then revealing he actually worked for Dagos and the Dark Nine - and then betraying Zariel a second time to usurp her layer completely. That's what we'd expect from the inventor of the Four-Cross.

BOZ said:

yeah, i thought so myself. i just happened to be looking at that chart and i said, "hey, wait a minute..."

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Sweet! Good catch on your part, and nice egg-hiding on the authors' part.

Rip, I like that set up. Did you invent that now, or have you had that in mind for some time?

Ripzerai said:

Was it during this period of reshuffling that Bel betrayed Dispater for his enemy Zariel? Or perhaps he secretly worked for Zariel all along, and he was a mole in Dispater's court, only revealing his true allegiance when the Reckoning began - and then revealing he actually worked for Dagos and the Dark Nine - and then betraying Zariel a second time to usurp her layer completely. That's what we'd expect from the inventor of the Four-Cross.

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I’m definitely going with the idea that Bel worked in Dispater’s court prior to moving to Avernus. I think Asmodeus has had his eye on Bel for a good long time, and probably ordered his transfer (through enough intermediaries that his involvement would not have been obvious), so that he could later put Bel into place and put Zariel out of commission, tricking Bel into a position that kept Bel’s influence over Avernus to a minimum. Although Bel and Dagos’ transfers to Avernus coincided to work with Asmodeus’ plan, I’d expect that they were carried out separately (and that Bel wouldn’t have known the connection to Dagos’ placement in the army). Sound plausible?

We can mix and match that idea with yours to get something that makes sense, or perhaps one idea or the other are simply superior.

BOZ said:

Did you invent that now, or have you had that in mind for some time?

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I just invented it now. I think it actually contradicts some of what I had come up with earlier, since I think before I had Corin be from Cania (since I had his mask be made of ice).

I don't see any problems with the rest of your ideas.

Cool, let's stick with that then.

OK. Let’s do this one plane at a time.

AVERNUS

Dragon #75 said:

[Tiamat] rules her spawn by force and fear, but her will is enforced on Avernus by 40 companies of abishai under the command of Malphas, 29 similar companies led by Amduscius, and 3 companies of erinyes under the command of the pit fiend Goap. These forces are always busy, for Avernus is constantly dealing with intruders and the machinations of the “rabble of devilkin” – former consorts fallen from favor, and other unique devils too weak or too mistrusted to gain or hold a position in the hierarchy of the hells.

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I’ll get into the Outcast Dukes later; though they currently play no part in Hell’s hierarchy, they are significant enough for a mention. “There are approximately fifty of these lesser unique devils; embittered, frustrated beings who torment the lemures and spined devils of this plane and viciously attack all intruders.”

Dragon #75 said:

Amduscias is a duke in the service of Tiamat, ruler of Avernus, and leads 29 companies of abishai. He is a being of long memory and cunning strategies. He can shape change at will into a dirty yellow unicorn with eyes of flame and a purple horn, a hawk-headed man (he usually wears dark red or black robes when in this form), or his favored form: a wolf with a prehensile, constricting serpent’s tail. He does not need, and does not wear, armor in any of his forms.
When in unicorn form, Amduscias attacks with his horn (acts as a sword of wounding, for 2-9 damage), or his hooves (2 per round, for 2-10 damage each)…
In human-like form Amduscias has average dexterity, and two or three attacks (fists for 1-2 each and beak for 1-8, or weapon and beak). Amduscias is ambidextrous and can wield two weapons if they are small (e.g., daggers or darts). This devil has above average strength when in human-like form, and a long, curved beak somewhat like a hummingbird’s in appearance. This beak is, however, terrifically strong and sharp…
Amduscias prefers to fight in wolf form; … and he attacks with two raking foreclaws and his jaws, or his hind claws and tail. If in a position to do so, he can use all six of these attacks in a round, against as many targets. The claws do 3-12 damage each, the jaws 1-20, and the tail 1-10 constriction damage per round plus additional damage if Amduscias uses it to immerse a held victim in water, batter a victim against a rock, etc…
Amduscias is sometimes called the “Reconciliator of Foes,” because he is a skillful actor and negotiator, and Tiamat often employs him to mediate in disputes between devils or her kin. While in any of his forms, Amduscias can speak and understand perfectly any language (cf. tongues spell)…

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Dragon #75 said:

Malphas is a duke in the service of Tiamat, ruler of Avernus. He leads 40 companies of abishai, and, like his fellow duke Amduscias and the pit fiend Goap, is likely to be found traveling about Avernus enforcing Tiamat’s will. None of Tiamat’s dukes have permanent encampments or fortresses, but instead they maintain a commonly held system of guarded, “safe” caves where their forces can rest or gather.
Malphas appears as a powerful, dark-complexioned man dressed in black velvet studded with gems (of considerable value; his robes have 333 gems of all sorts, 100 g.p. base value each, if recovered complete), or as a large, black, crow-like bird.
Malphas shuns armor, and fights with all weapons (and his spell-like powers) when in human form. His voice is deep and compelling, and with his powers of tongues and ESP (usable at will), he is adept at deceiving others, particularly non-devils…
Once per round, at will, Malphas can use one of his spell-like powers: tongues or ESP (as noted above), pyrotechnics, produce flame, fortress (this creates a structure similar to Daern’s Instant Fortress - see the DMG - in all respects, save that its door will open and close for anyone, and it will disappear in 16 turns or when Malphas wills), detect invisibility, read magic, dispel magic, flame arrow (Malphas can also apply this to blades wielded by himself or others; these become flame tongue swords - fiery damage, but no “to hit” bonuses - for 3 rounds), and remove (or bestow) curse. Once per day Malphas can use a symbol of pain, and he can cause fear (save vs. spell at -2 to avoid) by touch (one target per round)…

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Faces of Evil: The Fiends said:

His servants include the dukes Amduscias, Malphas, and Goap. They too are warlords and generals.

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So, probably, they either switched off between Tiamat and Bel, or swear fealty to both, or are primarily the servants of one, but assist the other. You know though, given the fact that both dukes command companies of abishai, it does make sense that they would be working more with Tiamat.

Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells said:

The only unique devils in the hierarchy of the Nine Hells who make their home in Avernus are Amduscias and Malphas, both of whom are servitors of Tiamat.

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So, the pit fiend Goap is not mentioned in this book as far as I’m aware. Either he is just a servant of Bel, or maybe he has been transferred or destroyed? We don’t have any details about him anywhere, so he may simply not be all that important. About all we know is that he commands companies of erinyes, so seeing him with Bel rather than Tiamat would work fine.

Note also that Bel has no consort. He was the consort of Zariel at one point (IIRC), but it doesn’t seem like he has one of his own yet.

Dagos of the Dark Eight – I’ll stick with him as the leader of Zariel’s armies prior to the Reckoning. I could see him, Corin, and Pearza joining the ranks of the Hellish hierarchy just long enough to get into place for the Asmodeus-supported coup, then splitting off with the rest of the Eight when their old job was done and their new one begun. What more would need to be said about Dagos here?

Book of Vile Darkness said:

Bel, a military commander, is always surrounded by other powerful and warlike devils. In particular, he has two cornugon fighters, Yeddikadir and Nalebranc, who strike fear even in devils that are supposedly more powerful. Yeddikadir is secretly also in the service of Belial, but only to keep an eye on Bel, not to betray him… at least not yet.

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These two might rate as “honorable mention” even though they are lesser sorts than pit fiends.

oh, look, someone already did something with these guys...