Highlights of D&D!

I was just thinking about all the things that make D&D such a joy to play. Here's what I've come up with.

1. Power Disparity - this is sort of a defining feature of the whole system. Characters often start out as lowly rank and file members of their class, but quickly distinguish themselves. There is soon little chance of an unsatisfying demise of characters several levels below you. By 10th level, your character has the Frazetta-painting feel where he could take on a whole company of lesser warriors; its only the truly dramatic struggles with worthy opponents you have to worry about. This lends to the epic feel of the game.
2. Class System - It's nice that I have a system that enforces concept, but don't have to worry about rolling against/allocating points merely to skills I used last session, which makes my character concept less vulnerable to GM whim and allows me to take into account what I want out of my character, not just what the GM brewed up for that nights.
3. The whole d20 thing - I like that D&D shucks off the false notion that some games adhere to that use bell curves are somehow more "accurate". Those who really understand statistics understand that a bell curve is irrelevant to raw probability; bell curves are useful for mapping physical quantities to probabilities, but when modeling raw probability, it has no meaning. So, using a raw d20 helps the DM understand the decision space, making it easier to estimate challenges on the fly.
4. Break points - The game offers concrete improvement points. It doesn't force you into the niggly and nigh-insensible single percentage point improvements of some percentile systems, nor does it create such an obstacle to advancement that you could never hope to emulate heroes of the genre like some systems of the 90s.
5. Magic - The present philosophy regarding magic is awesome. It's a fully functional system with flavorful pre-defined effects that is not woefully shoehorned into some author's vision of how magic works. If you have a vision of what goes on behind the scenes, you can put it in, or leave it a little mystery. The beauty of the volume of pre-defined spell is that it doesn't require anyone who wants to be a spellcaster to be an engineer to build his spells. (I'm an engineer, don't get me wrong. But we tried playing Fantasy Hero with business majors in college. It wasn't pretty fun for the business majors. )

In summary, let me just say that I like that D&D is written to players who have been playing the game for a while. We aren't 10 anymore, so it's appropriate that the dominant game on the market isn't a little pamphlet book like when we were 10. And yet, the clarity of the way the rules were written and the subscription-style setup of classes make it so casual gamers can sit down and play.

I agree, although your point titles are ripped off the other thread & not totally accurate. It's not the power _disparity_, it's the power _curve_ you like. In fact in 3e you are much less likely to see a big power disparity between PCs & NPC opponents than in previous editions, where 4 10th level PCS vs 400 orcs wasn't uncommon. In 3e it's far more likely to be 4 10th level PCs vs 8 6th level orcs with an 8th level NPC Wizard supporting them.

Edit: "In summary, let me just say that I like that D&D is written to players who have been playing the game for a while. We aren't 10 anymore, so it's appropriate that the dominant game on the market isn't a little pamphlet book like when we were 10" - This is the only pointI disagree with. When I was 11 I could play every day, spend countless hours poring over the 1e DMG, PHB et al, working out how it all worked. I no longer want to do that - often I don't have the time. I never played B/X D&D when it was around 1st time but in the past few months I've come to love it & C&C, for their relative simplicity & freedom.

My highlight for D&D, En World. And Psion to a lesser degree.

Psion said:

Power Disparity - this is sort of a defining feature of the whole system. Characters often start out as lowly rank and file members of their class, but quickly distinguish themselves. There is soon little chance of an unsatisfying demise of characters several levels below you. By 10th level, your character has the Frazetta-painting feel where he could take on a whole company of lesser warriors; its only the truly dramatic struggles with worthy opponents you have to worry about. This lends to the epic feel of the game.

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Yeah, wouldn't be D&D without this. If I'm high level, I want to be able to mow down an army all by myself. I want to go Silver Horde on the whole Agatean Empire.

[*]Class System - It's nice that I have a system that enforces concept, but don't have to worry about rolling against/allocating points merely to skills I used last session, which makes my character concept less vulnerable to GM whim and allows me to take into account what I want out of my character, not just what the GM brewed up for that nights.

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Few systems enforce advancing those skills you actually used - it's the GM who has to enforce it. Some rules say that it's appropriate to advance the stuff you used, some have it built in, but you can play all of them without the rule - and with the rule!

Yes, you can play D&D with that rule. So the rogue never sneaked about? Then he's not going to get to increase his ranks in hide and move silently.

But you're right: The free-style system lets you make the character you want, without having to beg the DM to give you some chance to sneak up on the bastard, or talk to enemies instead of hacking them down.

[*]The whole d20 thing - I like that D&D shucks off the false notion that some games adhere to that use bell curves are somehow more "accurate". Those who really understand statistics understand that a bell curve is irrelevant to raw probability; bell curves are useful for mapping physical quantities to probabilities, but when modeling raw probability, it has no meaning. So, using a raw d20 helps the DM understand the decision space, making it easier to estimate challenges on the fly.

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While I do think that the d20 can be erratic at times compared to, say, the d6 or even d10, I still wouldn't want D&D to change - other dice have their own games, this one belongs to d20.

And it's easy enough to exchange it for 3d6. Not that I'd want that. d6s are so mundane. I might forget that I'm a geek!

[*]Break points - The game offers concrete improvement points. It doesn't force you into the niggly and nigh-insensible single percentage point improvements of some percentile systems, nor does it create such an obstacle to advancement that you could never hope to emulate heroes of the genre like some systems of the 90s.

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Percentile systems aren't really my cup of tea. I like the level-free systems (or hybrids like L5R), but levels have their appeal. You know where you are with a level. It's all abstract, anyway, so why not go all the way and make it fun?


Another thing about levels and classes: It's a boon for beginning players: Each class is an instant inspiration for a character concept.

[*]Magic - The present philosophy regarding magic is awesome. It's a fully functional system with flavorful pre-defined effects that is not woefully shoehorned into some author's vision of how magic works. If you have a vision of what goes on behind the scenes, you can put it in, or leave it a little mystery. The beauty of the volume of pre-defined spell is that it doesn't require anyone who wants to be a spellcaster to be an engineer to build his spells. (I'm an engineer, don't get me wrong. But we tried playing Fantasy Hero with business majors in college. It wasn't pretty fun for the business majors. )
[/list]

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I like Elements of Magic - a system for d20 that lets you decide what you cast - not just "magic missile or shield spell", but you actually get to build your spells. If you want to go mana, you can as well forget ready-made spells.

But the vancian system is fun, too. And it's not as if D&D was completely tied to it - there are plenty of classes that don't use it, and for the rest there's variants to make them spontaneous.

What I really like about the vancian system is that it is different. It's not your average mana system. Everyone has that. There has to be a something different.


In summary, all those things you mentioned are what makes D&D D&D. If you change them, you don't have D&D any more. Might as well play something else.

It's like ordering a bloody mary, but without vodka, and no tomato juice, hold the lemon juice, and please no Tabasco. And I'd like to drink it from a soup plate instead of out of a glass.

Bravo, sir.

Beckett,

better stop before you give him a swelled head. *is kidding. Psion's head is already pretty darn big anyway. *

Kae'Yoss said:

I like Elements of Magic - a system for d20 that lets you decide what you cast - not just "magic missile or shield spell", but you actually get to build your spells. If you want to go mana, you can as well forget ready-made spells.

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Actually I like it too. But I don't have any illusions about it being more weighty in play than pre-spun spells of the standard system. It can be a fun tradeoff to make, if you are up for it.

I should clarify, for those who missed that I was lampooning, that my OP is intentionally strongly worded in a bit of mockery. While I do believe that what I have cited above are genuine virtues of the system, I don't really believe that the opinions of the original post are the "one true way." I do believe the systems has its virtues that people sell short, but there are other fun ways to play too.

A couple things I'd add or elaborate on:

I like the fact that with one system I can play low-levels if I want low power grim and gritty, mid-levels if I want heroic-but-not-superheroic, and high levels if I want 'save the world' type stuff. I don't have to buy a different system or even different books, and the players don't have to learn new rules.

I like that the unified and modular mechanics lets me tinker, and still have a pretty good idea what the potential ramifications are.

I like that I can mix and match experienced and inexperienced players and have them all enjoy the game. The class system provides an excellent archetype for new players to riff on, and yet is still flexible enough to satisfy 99% of the experienced players who want something more custom, or even those who just want to kick a little ass and to hell with backstory.

I like the level system. It gives (usually) concrete, meaningful increases to player abilities and allows the DM to better gauge player progress. It keeps different characters more or less on a level playing field, and helps (IME) D&D campaigns to have much better pacing and flow than any other system I've played.

Kae'Yoss said:

Yeah, wouldn't be D&D without this. If I'm high level, I want to be able to mow down an army all by myself. I want to go Grey Horde on the whole Agatean Empire.

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[Cohen the Barbarian]SILVER Horde[/Cohen the Barbarian]

And yes, I agree

Hooray! Thank you Psion. For a positive thread!