Highlights of D&D!

[Kae'Yoss]

[Cohen the Barbarian]SILVER Horde[/Cohen the Barbarian]

Argh*! I'm losing it.


*"More seething oil, please!" or "your wife's a hippo" in some languages

 

[Thunderfoot]

Ah, Psion, champion of Dungeony & Dragony goodness everywhere.
Thanks for the post guy, I'm right there with you and Rodrigo - I guess if Universe, Queenie or Xath weighs in we can pretty much state that the MD conclave is pro D&D.

 

[Nightfall]

Psion,

As long as you and I can agree together on 75% of the stuff, I'm fine with what you do Psion.

 

[Ceresco]

I was just thinking about all the things that make D&D such a joy to play. Here's what I've come up with.

[*]The whole d20 thing - I like that D&D shucks off the false notion that some games adhere to that use bell curves are somehow more "accurate". Those who really understand statistics understand that a bell curve is irrelevant to raw probability; bell curves are useful for mapping physical quantities to probabilities, but when modeling raw probability, it has no meaning. So, using a raw d20 helps the DM understand the decision space, making it easier to estimate challenges on the fly.

Could you please help me what you mean by this, especially the last sentance. There was never a reason to take any math above pre-calculus for philosophy or nursing majors, of which I am both. But I can for see the need to take a statistics class by the time I complete my Masters in nursing.

As I said, I'm most interested by what you mean in your last sentance. I am always looking for greater understanding of anything that someone claims aids them DMing.

edward kopp

 

[Nightfall]

Thundefoot,

You're forgetting guy that likes both Beyond Countless Doorways AND Rappan Athuk Reloaded.

 

[Psion]

As I said, I'm most interested by what you mean in your last sentance. I am always looking for greater understanding of anything that someone claims aids them DMing.

Simply this: Linear odds are easy to eyeball.

Multi-dice bell curves, dice pools, and more esoteric means are not.

As a GM, if I feel it is appropriate for a character with a given skill level to succeed one quarter of the time, it's pretty easy for me to figure: a roll of 16+ on d20. Add the skill modifier I am interested in scaling that against, and I have a DC.

Now were I to need to figure something I want the players to succeed on one quarter of the time on, say, 3d6 + mods >= Target Number it's less clear. I'd have to dig out a table of probabilities. And unlike linear odds, I can't do simple math to figure out how players with less or more than the target skill modifier will be affected. Due to the bell shape of the curve. I couldn't say, right off the top of my head, whether a +2 modifier is a 10% or 50% increase in the odds.

Dice pool methods and more esoteric methods are more complicated still. Unlike the multi-die bell curve, one table is no longer good enough. You need a multi-dimentional table that takes in all your different die numbers.

I feel that having a good idea what the odds are is instrumental to designing challenges and knowing what their effect will be.

 

[2WS-Steve]

One other nice thing about the d20 is that it keeps a fair number of things more in the realm of possibility and risk.

I'm a long-time Champions gamer too (but not that Steve Peterson) and one thing we learned over time is that the 3d6 probability distribution throws an awful lot of emphasis on DEX and CVs.

One of my players actually suggested going to a d20 for combat rolls, which I think might have helped. But then D&D 3.0 came out so we joined the Great Return.

 

[Ceresco]

Simply this: Linear odds are easy to eyeball.

Multi-dice bell curves, dice pools, and more esoteric means are not.

As a GM, if I feel it is appropriate for a character with a given skill level to succeed one quarter of the time, it's pretty easy for me to figure: a roll of 16+ on d20. Add the skill modifier I am interested in scaling that against, and I have a DC.

Now were I to need to figure something I want the players to succeed on one quarter of the time on, say, 3d6 + mods >= Target Number it's less clear. I'd have to dig out a table of probabilities. And unlike linear odds, I can't do simple math to figure out how players with less or more than the target skill modifier will be affected. Due to the bell shape of the curve. I couldn't say, right off the top of my head, whether a +2 modifier is a 10% or 50% increase in the odds.

Dice pool methods and more esoteric methods are more complicated still. Unlike the multi-die bell curve, one table is no longer good enough. You need a multi-dimentional table that takes in all your different die numbers.

I feel that having a good idea what the odds are is instrumental to designing challenges and knowing what their effect will be.

Thank you for the explination. I guess I've been doing that unconsciously when I'm DMing. As soon as you explained it I understood it and realized what you meant. It is far easier to make thse kind of calls on the fly with d20.

I ran an Arcanis adventure (The Carnival of Swords) that opens the adventure on the first day of the carnival which crowds the streets and has all kinds of competions for the PCs to participate and get a feel for the festival. The author (Scott Charlton) gives advice on the types of competitions one might run and some basic rules for a few. But for the most part, things like races through, over and under the city streets were left up to the DM. I cobbled together a method where by the PCs had to Spot a flag in the distance, race towards it where ever it may be, over coming obstacles in between they had to jump, climb and swim and once there ,Spot the next and so on. I used Initiative to determine position when contestants were on the same leg of the race on the same round together and after some number of rounds I used Con checks to fight off fatigue. I was able to come up with reasonable DCs on the fly and keep everyone moving quickly and they all seemed to have fun.

Interesting. I guess I have never looked at it that way. You know how it is, if it's working you tend not to think about it.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Thundefoot,

You're forgetting guy that likes both Beyond Countless Doorways AND Rappan Athuk Reloaded.

I'm forgetting more than that, but my brain was fried and I regurgitated what was there.

 

[RedFox]

Treasure: D&D gives precise guidelines for the accumulation of goodies, and gives you a whole BUNCH of strange and wonderful gadgets and gizmos to choose from. Most other games hand-wave the concept of wealth and gear to some degree or another, but I can't recall a game in recent memory that makes the accumulation and use of items such a central part of the system itself.

Getting treasure and magical items is fun and more games could learn from this part of D&D. It gives players concrete rewards beyond merely advancing the characters themselves.

With two different reward systems, D&D is twice the fun!