Bardic performances above 30...

I'm interested in what, as players and especially as DM's, you've done about bardic perform checks over 30. In the skill description it says that they begin attracting patrons and maybe even extra planar attention but there is nothing in any book I've read, even S&S, about what can and can't happen.

Currently I'm leaning towards having a Lantern Archon or two show up during particularly brilliant performances as back-up musicians (sounds silly but if you imagine them sortof vibrating the air like a celestial quire [sp?] then it's kinda cool), and maybe even aiding in a battle now and again.

The problem is that I don't want it to be anything too powerful, after all, that would just unbalance things.

It depends on the campaign. I don't use the perform chart at all. If you do well for nobility, then you could be sponsored. If you perform well in from of a large gathering you could get groupies. Basically, do what fits.

it's choir, and inmc i had elves start seeking out our bard to leave their children as apprentices.

especially frustrated parents of half-elves...it made lots of sense, since he had just taken the leadership feat.

also, some tuffs could volunteer as protection during shows...remember altamont!!!

I like the idea of having heavenly choirs do back up music for legendary bards.

Although you could only really do it for the "good" bards as I can't see a lantern archon turning up to a concert for Evil Bard(tm) whose celebrating his trip to the Abyss to cement alliances. Although perhaps some kind of demon or devil turns up for this kind of guy.

Actually, it could be a pretty good plot element for the performers in the game. The characters who excel in performance could notice strange, unearthly looking people attending some of their performances and as they get better these people become more prominent until one day when the bard performs at his greatest he notices that they've become part of the performance.

To me, as long as the only real benefits of it are to the bards prestige and this "choir" doesn't help him adventuring etc then you can have almost as powerful an entity as you like turn up.

Just my 2 cents

I suggest that you ignore the PHB guidelines on what should happen with a Perform check of 30, mostly because they are SO DAMN EASY TO MAKE.

Players everywhere seem to think that checks above 30 should make them hot **** -- and that's just nonsense, because any random 10th level guy can make checks like that REGULARLY.

Hell, let's take an 7th level bard with Skill Focus: Perform (+2), a 20 Charisma (+5), a MW musical instrument (+2), and max ranks in Perform (+10).

That's +19 to Perform checks -- he is REGULARLY (50% of the time) churning out performances of 30+. Are these great performances? Of course. Are these performances that deserve the attention of other-planar beings? Of course not!

Now let's give this bard a 2000gp magic item that gives him +10 to Perform checks. Now he's regularly churning out performances of 40+. Are these fantastic performances? Of course. Do they deserve the attention of other-planar beings? Of course not! They're just going to be TOO damn common.

(This points out that 2k for a +10 to a skill check item is way too cheap, but that's a different thread.)

IMO, a performance worthy of attendance by heavenly creatures would probably be something churned out by a maximally skilled 12th level bard or better, minimum -- 50+, I'd say.

You don't see rogues going around saying that they deserve Devas sucking their privates just because they picked an 80gp Good Lock (DC30) in a mere six seconds. But Bards seem to think they deserve to see Odin himself tossing platinum in the collection plate just because they manage to hit a 30 on a perform check.

*sigh*

And don't get him started on static DCs (for doors, traps, etc.)...

Gotta agree with the problematic things Capital F points out. It's really hard to justify not throwing some house rules together for that Bardic stuff. Can't imagine what they were thinking. I guess no one was playtesting Bards since it made it through the whole process...

Are lillend's the artistic outsiders? If you start using a celestial, I recommend those...

Are you saying that 10th level PC's shouldn't be considered well above the ordinary?

30+ may seem easy in the world of player characters, but try telling that to the 2nd level commoner minstrel trying to match him.

One of the locations in tornaments, fairs and taverns has a choir that used various outsiders, harpies and elves in its performance. I largely came up with than after asking exactly what a bard with such high perform checks would be doing with his time...

Lillends and Firres from the Manual of the Planes are good artsy types.

Really, all it is is a potential plot hook.

But, yeah, DC's of 30 ain't that tough.

A level 10 fighter can fight against 20 human warriors and will probably surivive, maybe "great cleaving" 5 or more of them in 6 seconds.
This seems to be quite impressive - I can't do it, and I doubt there is anyone who really could do it in this world.

So, why shouldn't a perform check of 30+ not be as impressive as given in the skill description?

Look at the DMG, and check how many 10 level characters you will find in most "cities". Not many, I think...

So, while a level10 character can break the DC of 30 regularly, artist can't do this regulary...

Mustrum Ridcully