Bardic performances above 30...

[Squire James]

I'd say Perform checks of 30 start getting extraplanar attention. That doesn't mean "a band of demons joins in, and it goes something like this...", just some attention. The bard probably shouldn't even know about it yet. A few archons in Olympus start humming the more popular parts of their songs. That sort of thing. Sort of like how a frightening number of us 30-somethings know the theme to the Brady Bunch almost word-for-word, even though the song's hardly the pinnacle of musical achievement!

Also, not all attention is GOOD attention! I can imagine the good-aligned bards attracting a succubus long before other outsiders take a direct hand in things. Of course, if the succubus has her way, the bard won't be capable of 30+ Perform checks for long...

As for skill bonus items, I consider them on a case-by-case basis. The campaign effects of +10 to Jump is a lot different than those of +10 to Diplomacy, for instance. If I allow such items to be made at all, it would be with a hefty cost mutiplier. I have to think of this a lot, because I've got a 18th level wizard-type eyeing Epic Spellcasting, and inquiring about +30 Belts of Spellcraft...

 

[Ferret]

A 20th level aasimar, bard with Skill Focus: Perform (+2), a 24 Charisma (+7), a MW musical instrument (+2), and max ranks 23, and that magic Item(can't you get +30 like the jump thing?) and then a critical chord makes it 94

 

[Codragon]

Down with the PH Perform Table

I agree with Forrester. The perform table in the PH is out of whack. It may work in a very low powered campaign where 10th is very high, but that's about it.

7th level Bards should not be able to attract outer planar beings' attention with regularity. That's just absurd, IMO.

30+ on your perform check is a superb performance. Call it superheroic, superhuman - whatever. That's not my main concern.

My beef is that it's not rare. It happens regulary starting at about mid level in an average powered campaign. Having the Choirs of Angels come at the beginning of all your party's fights gets boring in a hurry.

 

[Forrester]

A level 10 fighter can fight against 20 human warriors and will probably surivive, maybe "great cleaving" 5 or more of them in 6 seconds.
This seems to be quite impressive - I can't do it, and I doubt there is anyone who really could do it in this world.

So, why shouldn't a perform check of 30+ not be as impressive as given in the skill description?

Look at the DMG, and check how many 10 level characters you will find in most "cities". Not many, I think...

So, while a level10 character can break the DC of 30 regularly, artist can't do this regulary...

Mustrum Ridcully

Arwink, Ridcully . . . you're just not getting it.

First of all, why are we talking about 10th level bards? A 7th level bard can put out performances like those described (30+) fully half the time. With that magic item, he can regularly put out performances that are 40+!!!

And according to the DMG, half of all "large towns" (population 2000 to 5000) have a 7th level bard or higher.

By your estimation, outplanar beings are regularly showing up to pay attention to the performances of these small-time bards that hang out in these not-even-cities!!

Damn, they must be bored!

As far as the 2nd level commoner minstrel is concerned, yeah, he's outmatched. But what's your point? We're not talking about whether the scum of the earth are impressed, we're talking about whether EXTRAPLANAR BEINGS ARE IMPRESSED.

Incidentally, a 2nd level minstrel probably still has a 16 Charisma, Skill Focus, and max ranks in perform -- that's +10 to his checks. Mr. Lame-ass minstrel is putting out performances that might "start to attract extraplanar beings" one time in 20.

Yeeeaaaaaah. Sure he is.

 

[Squire James]

Well, looking at the DC's for Scry and Tumble, I'm hardly startled by the PHB's impression of a DC 30 task. About half the skills need to scale like the "thief skills", to give someone reason to gain more than 5 ranks in them. Why take more than 5 ranks in Heal or Intuit Direction, ever?

 

[Henry]

I'd say Perform checks of 30 start getting extraplanar attention. That doesn't mean "a band of demons joins in, and it goes something like this...", just some attention.

I wonder what Johnny's stats would be in d20? Or Charlie Daniels' stats, for that matter.

I do want to agree that static DC's for such things will influence your campaign heavily. If your campaign is low-level (1st - 5th), then such a performance truly would attract attention. But if you don't see 10th to 15th level characters as being world-shakingly powerful, or if your world is magic-rich, then perhaps you need to set the DC's higher.

 

[Terraism]

Although you could only really do it for the "good" bards as I can't see a lantern archon turning up to a concert for Evil Bard(tm) whose celebrating his trip to the Abyss to cement alliances. Although perhaps some kind of demon or devil turns up for this kind of guy.

Mmm... depending on the type of music a bard enjoys, I can just see a Kyton madly flailing around in the background...

 

[Forrester]

Well, looking at the DC's for Scry and Tumble, I'm hardly startled by the PHB's impression of a DC 30 task. About half the skills need to scale like the "thief skills", to give someone reason to gain more than 5 ranks in them. Why take more than 5 ranks in Heal or Intuit Direction, ever?

AUUUGH! Don't even get me STARTED on Scrying. DC20 my ass. I don't have a set system, but I've roughly bumped up the DCs by 10 or 20 for checks to scry, and bumped up the DC to detect scrying by 5.

Not that I told the players about the latter part yet. Heh heh heh.

The PHB got the DC to pick locks right. In most other places, they just plain screwed up. It's basically DC30 to convince a random passerby that you're a polymorphed lammusu with a Bluff check -- christ almighty that's dumb. DC30 to know any (and that means every, if you do it consistently) powerful wizards' childhood nickname with Bardic Lore.

It's time to stop worshipping at the altar of the '30' skill check, people! We should form a club. Or a support group. What would be a good name?

 

[Ruined]

[Duh! Read the rest of the thread Ruiner...]

Heh. Now all I can picture is part of the old Charlie Daniels song, "The Devil Went Down to Georgia", and how a backup band of fiends might show up to add some hellish jazz backup for an evil bard...

 

[wolff96]

Mmm... depending on the type of music a bard enjoys, I can just see a Kyton madly flailing around in the background...

Give it up for KICS!

Knights In Cthulu's Service!