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Thursday, 20th September, 2007, 10:09 PM #11
Lama (Lvl 13)
Originally Posted by Moon-LancerRed Hot Swing
"In Inspired Sarlona, nightmares have you!" -Klaus
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Thursday, 20th September, 2007, 10:18 PM #12
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
I think there are literally about two creature types that don't get darkvision or low light vision by default. One of them is Humanoid. The other one is Ooze, which gets freaking blindsight, anyway. Plants have low-light vision. It's really pretty absurd.Originally Posted by Whizbang Dustyboots
Thursday, 20th September, 2007, 10:21 PM #13
Gallant (Lvl 3)
That never made any sense to me either. I just let them see normally, but in black and white only.And someone with Darkvision can see perfectly in the dark, but only up to 60 feet?
Agreed. I've never had a problem figuring out 'range of light' for torches, etc. when underground. Just double it for LLV types. I also liked how in C&C you had "dusk vision" (for gnomes, I think) which doubled the range of light sources and "starlight vision" (for elves) which tripled them.Originally Posted by Moon-Lancer
Me neither. I just give 'em a penalty to Spot and certain other skills, as I feel appropriate, depending on how dark it is, situational contrast contrast and whether / how much time they've had for their eyes to adjust. Starting with "shadowy illumination" is usually good.Originally Posted by Moon-Lancer
Regular humans can see really well with "just starlight", actually, but only in situations where they have not been exposed to any artificial sources of light for at least a couple hours. Since that pretty much never happens in the modern world (large cities throw light for hundreds of miles in every direction), many people don't realize just how sensitive the eyes can be, or how bright the stars can be. In pre-modern times you could see "your shadows" (plural) on moonless nights, because both Jupiter and the Milky Way were bright enough to make them.
I don't "tell stories" when I play D&D. I adventure. Afterward, when the gold is counted and the bodies piled high, we may tell stories about how it all went down. Or not.
The slaughter will continue until play improves.
Thursday, 20th September, 2007, 10:46 PM #14
Magsman (Lvl 14)
I hope they get rid of darkvision almost entirely. If it's still there, I really think it needs a range, but it could be pretty extreme (100'+). But, I really, really have grown to hate darkvision.
Most things that have darkvision should have low light and most things that currently have low light should see normally.
Friday, 21st September, 2007, 05:29 AM #15
Gallant (Lvl 3)
Dark Vision is a nice idea - in extreme moderation.
Outsiders and aberrations having it I can see, so to speak.
For all other creature types, however, it should be virtually unknown.
Exceptional fey, rare magical beasts, some undead - these I can understand having it. But most others should not have it.
As for Low Light Vision - give it to most animals and magical beasts, fey, perhaps giants, and some exceptional monstrous humanoids (but not all or even most monstrous humanoids). I can't see the point in giving it to most other creature types.
I've always been of the opinion that constructs and undead should have magical senses rather than enhanced non-magical ones.
Friday, 21st September, 2007, 06:42 AM #16
Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)
I hope they get rid of dark vision for three reasons:
1) The moment you bring humans (or halflings) along as part of your party, the group needs a light source. At that point, dark vision in the party becomes (mostly) useless, because as a DM (or a player) I have other things to spend my time thinking about than, "Can I see anything beyond the radius of the torch light."
2) It makes sneaking rogues pretty useless, as how does a low level human rogue sneak through a dungeon when those who dwell in the dungeon don't need light. I know there are work-arounds, but they all are slightly meta-gamey.
3) DM: "The figure is cloaked in shadows from the building, hiding its true form from your eyes."
Player; "I have dark vision, I can see it clearly."
DM: &$#@!! So much for atmosphere!
Friday, 21st September, 2007, 06:57 AM #17
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
Hell, you need one for any race with even LLV if you're venturing into a pitch black cave/dungeon/what-have-you.Originally Posted by Loincloth of Armour
Friday, 21st September, 2007, 07:17 AM #18
Switch all player races and most monster to low light vision. Let a few of the weirder and subterranean creatures have darkvision, but keep them few and far between.
Friday, 21st September, 2007, 08:52 AM #19
Superhero (Lvl 15)
Light sourcing is something I hope they seriously streamline in 4e. Counting the squares, determining shadowy light, etc is all tedious and boring.
1) Normal Vision: Unless there is a lot of light in the room, then you have 20% concealment (or the 4e equivalent).
2) Low Light: As long as there is faint line in the room, you can see just fine.
3) Dark Vision: You can see in the dark...period.
Basically make the visions more powerful, but also ensure that its factored in when races get there abilities.
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Friday, 21st September, 2007, 01:12 PM #20
Grandfather of Assassins (Lvl 19)
...and what happens to low-light vision?Originally Posted by RigaMortus2
"There is no survival without order, there is no evolution without chaos."
"You have to see past the RAW to understand the rules of the game."
"And rules are OVERRATED by the way!