D&D 4E 4E: Darkvision and Low-light vision

[CharlesRyan]

I would actually prefer to go the other way: put tighter restrictions on darkvision.

If there are no restrictions, any creature with darkvision strongly prefers to live its life in complete darkness. The dragon with darkvision goes to great lengths to keep all light out of its lair, because it gains no benefit from light, and lots of defensive benefit from darkness.

On the flip side, if the creature's darkvision is limited to, say, 20 feet, it would gain a tactical advantage in darkness without having the desire to live in the pitch black. Snuffing its torches might be one of its first acts when it thinks intruders are around, but its lair isn't a perpetual midnight.

This second scenario can be tactically interesting and fits with my idea of what an adventuring environment (like a dragon's lair) might be like. The first scenario is just frustrating and damages my suspension of disbelief.

I definitely agree with the chorus of calls for far fewer creatures having darkvision.

 

[Pbartender]

I would actually prefer to go the other way: put tighter restrictions on darkvision.

If there are no restrictions, any creature with darkvision strongly prefers to live its life in complete darkness. The dragon with darkvision goes to great lengths to keep all light out of its lair, because it gains no benefit from light, and lots of defensive benefit from darkness.

Another option is to provide more stringent penalties for bright light for creatures with Darkvision. In other words, the Light-Dark range of penalties is reversed for them... Complete darkness leaves everything visible out to its line of sight, put partial illusmunation stills counts as shadowy (as normal) and full illumination acts as complete darkness.

That way, yes, a dragon would try to keep its lair as dark as possible, but a bunch of adventurers with torches and lanterns might blind it to a degree.

 

[Celebrim]

The thing is that compared to most animals human vision is pretty sucky at night (even if it is better than you think it is), but that is because it is pretty darn good during the day compared to most animals. The notion that humans are 'The Mario' needs to go away. There are some things we are good at. The problem with the current system is that there are no tradeoffs.

1) Neither low-light nor darkvision: base +2 racial bonus to spot and search. Humans, most avian creatures,
2) Low-light vision: No additional rules. You just see better in the dark. Most creatures should have this. A few (elves, owls) might also have a racial bonus to spot, but it should be rare.
3) Dark-Vision: Supernatural creatures only. Try to limit it to undead and naturally subterranian creatures only. Everything else that has it should default to low-light vision. Creatures with this should by default have some sort of light aversion, at minimum a base -2 racial penalty to spot and search when exposed to light, and more often than not a -1 morale penalty on all actions. Range is unlimited in total darkness, but is treated as low-light vision in the presence of any light at all.
4) True Seers: A few greater outsiders can have dark-vision without a light penalty, but it should be a rare thing.

A similar issue that bothers me is that Elves are about the only creature with CON penalties. That's ridiculous. Virtually every creature below medium size should have a CON penalty. Cat's of every sort are no more hardy than elves. Mice have exceptional consitutions _for thier size_, but they are still easier to poison/hurt than 160lb humans because they only weigh a few ounces. A rat is better treated as having like 4-6 CON plus natural disease resistance (a mouse, like 2-4 CON). And that doesn't even get into the fact that humans actually have above average con, and if humans average 10 CON most other medium size creatures ought to have a penalty (or alternately, humans should have endurance as a bonus feat).

 

[lukelightning]

My rogue has low-life vision. He can see clearly through sleaze.

 

[lukelightning]

The thing is that compared to most animals human vision is pretty sucky at night (even if it is better than you think it is), but that is because it is pretty darn good during the day compared to most animals.

Not necessarily true; lots of animals have poor night vision. Of course, they tend to be the ones not famous for their vision anyways. And those that can't see color have a slight advantage even without nocturnal adaptations because of the physiology of rods and cones. (I think...I recall learning about this in a science show but I might be wrong).

 

[Tinker Gnome]

My group has a tendency to ignore the lighting rules. The party would usually make camp at night, and most dungeons seemed to have enough natural light.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Don't 4E elves' eyes glow?

But seriously, I hate all of the options/rules for light and darkness. Darkvision, low-light vision, blacklight, the ability to see in magical darkness, creatures from the plane of shadow gaining concealment everywhere except in bright daylight....

It's way too much.