Chew on this.

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Zeren said:
And comments like that make you look like a hypocrite, John. That is no help to this...tense situation at all.

Let's keep things civil and ignore the comments on the sideline.

John is right, we can accomplish something here if we all calm down.

Indeed we can. And for the part of me looking like a hypocrite, I apologize. I just find useless posts about closing threads to be pointless. And yes, I do believe that something may be accomplished through this thread. This is why I've involved myself so heavily.
 

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Tharivious

First Post
John a.k.a Sir D said:
Problem is, they reject -everything-.
No, they reject ideas that are unrealistic for the current situation or unlikely to actually function the way that they may have been intended to function.

I mean, they clearly rejected a combat room that allows non-combat roleplaying. And they rejected a Sigil setting, and a Realms setting. Oh, and they rejected the possibility of a future Eberron setting room, too.

Wait... that's right, they did not reject those things.
 

Tharivious said:
No, they reject ideas that are unrealistic for the current situation or unlikely to actually function the way that they may have been intended to function.

I mean, they clearly rejected a combat room that allows non-combat roleplaying. And they rejected a Sigil setting, and a Realms setting. Oh, and they rejected the possibility of a future Eberron setting room, too.

Wait... that's right, they did not reject those things.

I don't even remember the days of any of those, except for the Cage. I've been around a while (a while being like 2 years), and perhaps that whole ordeal escaped me, but the only thing that I've ever seen them accept was the Cage.
 

Towey

First Post
Ok so I'm not a huge fan of all of the rules here, needless to say I've tried to follow them the best I can while still trying to have fun. Really I've not had any issues with the Code of Conduct and the Setting Rules have given me issues only a few times. Have they directly caused me issues? No, I play humans for the most part as I am one. Offline there is a bit more diversity, but here I only have one character currently.

My biggest point I have to bring up might be considered a bit vague but I'm sure those who understand it do so perfectly. If you do not understand it there are sites, like Wikipedia, to research it as something would be lost by me giving a full explanation on it.

This is not MIST.
 

Magi_Gabriel

Foppish Technocrat
John a.k.a Sir D said:
Actually, I stated that I wasn't. And I truly wasn't. I was merely stating facts. Is stating a fact complaining? I was just wondering if I was right about there only being 3-4 active Magi's. But anyway, I'm not going to argue that. Arguing about useless banter will only bring in angry emotions, and that is not something we need more of here.

What I am really wanting to know however is why the Magi's shoot down every suggestion ever made. It seems like they do so without really thinking on it...or perhaps it just seems that way.

I do think about every suggestion made, that's why you'll notice every time I reject a suggestion I state all the rational reasons for doing so and that I'm doing it for objective reasons rather than just "I don't like it." or "So and so suggested it and he's not a Magi.".

Generally speaking when people pitch suggestions they pitch them based off entirely their own perspective. This means that there are quite possibly other factors involved which they haven't considered or couldn't consider (they simply weren't in a position to know them). Hence why we can never guarantee an affirmative answer to suggestions from anyone.

In industries which require creative thinking there is a widely accepted process called Brainstorming where the idea is everyone present simply pitches out ideas and suggestions that will then be considered by the group. Invariably in these cases the vast majority of suggestions will be dismissed quickly and of the remainder you usually keep eliminating until you're down to one solid idea. Depending on the issue and the nature of the solution required, you can quite possibly eliminate all of them.

Suggestions are always welcome, but I'm not willing to state we're going to follow any of them because the simply fact is... until I see the suggestion I can't say how viable it is and I can't run with a suggestion if I see a critical flaw in it... unless someone can propose a solution to the critical flaw.

This site is fairly simple to use from the individual user perspective, but when it comes to making decisions about the nuts and bolts that will effect the community as a whole it can get very complicated very quickly and not being able to say "no" to things would make it all fall apart very quickly.

So please, feel free to suggest things, but understand there's a good chance we won't be able to take up your suggestions.
 

No, it's not MIST. It's based on D&D and other fantasy role-playing games. Erm, I don't know what the futuristic one is based on, if anything.

The thing is, I just kind of think that Humans, Elves, Demons, Vampires, Dragons, Lycans, and Drow are getting a bit old. I sort of just want more variety. If there was one thing I'd be able to change on this site, it would be the variety accepted in the tavern and garden. But I can't, and I've tried to get that changed. Doesn't work. I'm not going to try again.
 

Then, Trelian...could you kindly explain why we can't have species that are smaller than the size restriction in the tavern and garden? I never really understood that rule, nor really got an explanation other than, "Because Siani said so," now I'm not sure if that's true or accurate...and I'm not claiming that it is, I'm just a curious little bugger eagerly waiting an answer. And we'll see what it is. I'll most likely suggest or argue part of it...'tis my nature and why would I be wanting to know if I hadn't anything to throw back? Thanks, John.

Oh, and perhaps we should think about opening a new thread, one that stays like permanently titled "Suggestions for the Site", unless that of course would not be a good idea? I wouldn't have a clue.
 

Magi_Gabriel

Foppish Technocrat
John a.k.a Sir D said:
Then, Trelian...could you kindly explain why we can't have species that are smaller than the size restriction in the tavern and garden? I never really understood that rule, nor really got an explanation other than, "Because Siani said so," now I'm not sure if that's true or accurate...and I'm not claiming that it is, I'm just a curious little bugger eagerly waiting an answer. And we'll see what it is. I'll most likely suggest or argue part of it...'tis my nature and why would I be wanting to know if I hadn't anything to throw back? Thanks, John.

Oh, and perhaps we should think about opening a new thread, one that stays like permanently titled "Suggestions for the Site", unless that of course would not be a good idea? I wouldn't have a clue.
Uh, since Trelian hasn't posted for a long time... was that directed at me?
 

Er...yeah. For some reason I had posted the wrong Magi screen name. Stupid me... wow, it was because I had just scanned the list of Magi's and Trelian's name just stuck in my head. Sorry Gabriel!
 

Magi_Gabriel

Foppish Technocrat
John a.k.a Sir D said:
Then, Trelian...could you kindly explain why we can't have species that are smaller than the size restriction in the tavern and garden? I never really understood that rule, nor really got an explanation other than, "Because Siani said so," now I'm not sure if that's true or accurate...and I'm not claiming that it is, I'm just a curious little bugger eagerly waiting an answer. And we'll see what it is. I'll most likely suggest or argue part of it...'tis my nature and why would I be wanting to know if I hadn't anything to throw back? Thanks, John.

The reason there are restrictions of many sorts on characters species in the tavern and the garden are twofold IC and OOC.

IC:

Greyhawk is not a loving, accepting cosmopolitan that accepts all individuals on their merits regardless of species, creed or background location. It is a rather harsh and in many ways barbaric world filled with horrifying creatures that have never (and likely will never) show any interest in having (much less displaying) redeeming qualities that would make them acceptable in mainstream human/demihuman society.

As such, these creatures and creatures easily mistaken for them are treated much like modern society treats a rabid dog. If you can, you kill it, if you can't, you run away.

Fae and other tiny humanoids are hence, not viewed by the general public of Greyhawk as cute, lovable little sprites who kiss children on the nose but rather as troublesome and dangerous supernatural beings who might steal children or burn down your house if they disapprove of your lifestyle. Add to that, the "cute" ones are generally more akin to children or pets in their emotional stability. This brings us on to the next point:

Small animals and children are not allowed to run loose in the tavern or garden for the same reason you're not allowed to let them run free in malls, supermarkets or bars in real life. Most apartments won't let you keep pets for fear of damage they might cause so Siani isn't going to let anything that might pee on a customer, bite them (and give them diseases) or otherwise create a ruckus in her her tavern.

It's her tavern, her "castle" per se and IC she doesn't need anyone's approval. There is no equal opportunity board that stands up for the civic rights of animals, supernatural creatures or anyone else. They also don't generally have educations as parazoologists so if it is confusable as a "bad" thing it's likely to be understood to be a bad thing and killed. Having bad things in your tavern is bad for business, particularly bad things that can create problems just by being there and are known for being uncontrollable.

Siani might make exceptions and let in "bad" races she knows can be coerced into following the rules (such as Faerun drow) and are otherwise more or less ideal tavern patrons, but there's no reason to allow in tiny people who bring virtually no business and are known for being, at best, a nuisance.

OOC:

There's a significant proportion of online roleplayers who like the idea that all the things you see while out adventuring you actually have to go adventuring to see because they're... special. Tiny people, talking rats, etc are all creatures that in most fantasy worlds (including the classic archetypes like Middle Earth) live away from people and hence meeting them is a magical experience.

This tends to get diluted and feel silly if you can just wander into a tavern and everyone you see as soon as you step into the tavern is proudly displaying their supernatural heritage. There's not mystery to it, not intrigue of shuffle footing around people who might smash your head open for being one of these races and no magical revelations when you work out that friend of yours is really a ... whatever.

The idea of the supernatural world being a hidden one is a popular one, so popular that White Wolf built it's business around it's World of Darkness range. As I mentioned it's popular in a lot of fantasy such Tolkien (and works heavily influenced by him) and many of the DnD settings (particularly in 1st and 2nd Edition) so the room is there to accommodate the roleplayers.

For the people who don't want all the fuss and bother about worrying if your race is acceptable to walk the streets or not or if your neighbour would frown upon you being descended from a race of beings who consider elven babies a fine delicacy... we have the Bazaar. It's completely accepting and cosmopolitan.

So, as the compromise, the players who want to roleplay only in the "tradition" type fantasy world where magic must be sought out are expected to stay in The Crossroads Tavern (and sub rooms) while those who want to have characters who are completely outlandish are asked to keep those characters in The Bazaar (and sub rooms), those who want to be somewhere in the middle The Rotunda (and sub rooms). For those who enjoy a mix they are encouraged to visit whichever room they please at any time but to please follow the rules of the room.

That means not glittery fairies in the Tavern, no balors in the Rotunda and no complaining that any type of character has no right to exist in Bazaar (unless it violates some other CoC rule).

As such, Setting Co-Ordinators are open to ideas that will build upon the current purpose and theme of their setting. Trelian was fully behind the Cage because it fitted well with the idea of the Bazaar and people expressed a desire for such a thing. Nashira hosts balls in the Rotunda if they fit the occasion and she's able to.

But they're not going to change their setting in ways that run contrary to the purpose and theme of the setting.

Oh, and perhaps we should think about opening a new thread, one that stays like permanently titled "Suggestions for the Site", unless that of course would not be a good idea? I wouldn't have a clue.

Really I'm just leaving it open until everyone is done posting questions and comments I should reply to, that way I can close it and nobody will feel "cut off" or shunned.
 
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