Chew on this.

[Magi_Gabriel]

Thank you for taking time to acctually read what I wrote Gabe. As a long time RPer here it's nice to get listened too for once. Honestly no I didn't put those examples up on your CoC clarification thread because 1: The familiars rule is setting not CoC orrianted and 2: I was only using those said examples to show where confusion may be coming up with said rules and 3: As I stated, I hardly RP here anymore. Though maybe you need to peek at things like that again....I don't know maybe pick a groups of like..ten differnt RPers and have them interput the rules for you? Then go from their interputiations to see how well the rules are explained? I know your super busy and all so it's hard to do but maybe one of the others who has a bit more time could help you? Just my thoughts, one way to check how people are seeing the rules.

Because honestly, I have better things to do than to assume everything is constantly broken and ask people to try to fix it over and over and over and over on the assumption something is wrong (but nobody can tell me what). We aren't at the forefront of the Cola wars, we simply don't have the budget to do blind mass marketing research.

Individual interpretations of the CoC generally only come into play in incidents and then it's rather hard to preserve the privacy of an individual if I post the log to ten people and say "What is your interpretation of rule x and it applies to this log?" then wait for them to ask their friends, think about it and reply to us on it and then have us ask them to clarify what they mean and would it be clearer if I phrased it this way... then take a tally of who finds what easiest, etc, etc.

We put the Code of Conduct up for people to discuss before we finalized it, some concerns were raised and since them some people have asked questions and had their questions answered. If people are shy about it, they can ask me in PMs or over email as some have, if they feel it's a wide problem they can ask publicly.

I can mostly surely and honestly tell you nobody has ever been warned for asking for help on understanding the Code of Conduct.

If I get the impression there is a misunderstanding or something needs clarifying, it gets clarified. We updated the setting rules for CRT just last night before this incident because it was decided we should clarify and adjust them slightly in response to an issue.

I simply cannot however, perform time consuming research on every sentence in our rule guidelines to find out if there is a problem. For starters it would drive all the volunteers I kept bugging for clarification insane and mean the Magi were on less often because they're too busy dealing with all the data.

As for the harrassment thing. Since it wasn't dealt with and I was blown off by others I dealt with it my own way. I avoid RPing here. That is my choice as an player. I will say in some ways I miss this place, had a lot of funs times here, but I don't like watching over my shoulder thinking "Great what is So and So going to do to me today? Are they just going to sling &%$^ at me or are they going to report my every little action to a Magi?" In all honesty thats to much stress, I came here to have fun not feel singled out. Yes I know I should have reported the actions that I felt were wrong to You or Siani....but honestly I was sort of getting the impression you Magi are above the law. *shrugs* Yes I know thats not the case, I'm just stating this from the view of the lowly player.

Well, we cannot run the site on the assumption every patron Magi is guilty of everything possibly wrong until proven innocent. If people are unhappy due to something going wrong and they don't take the time to tell the appropriate people then the appropriate people can't be expected to know or fix it.

I'm sorry, but I'm not omniscient. Yet.

Then why did you ask for applications of Magi, which was never actually filled?
I've been anxiously awaiting the new Magi, just because I think it would be nice for another one to be around. There are only like, what, 3-4 active Magi? And some of them are -rarely- on. Not that I'm complaining of course.

You are complaining John, stating that you are not does not change that. There is nothing inherently wrong with complaining provided you have a basis behind it. Kindly remember you do not have a basis to say who can have an opinion on what on these boards.

Because at the time we decided it'd be good to have another one and both Siani and I had the time and resources available to train another Magi. We took some trainees and as yet, none of the most recent batch have graduated training to become Magi.

That's the way it works, we don't guarantee any applicant will graduate to be a Magi. Sometimes we get two, sometimes we get one, sometimes we get none.

It would be wonderful to have more Magi around and the ones who are around on more often, it would also be wonderful for me to have a million dollars. Sadly though there are problems in getting more Magi presence on the chat and problem with me getting a million dollars, especially if you want the results tomorrow.

@Cashmere: If you don't care for this thread, don't post in it any more and don't read it any more. If you have suggestions on how to improve the site please post them in the relevant threads or areas but do not keep posting that you think this thread is pointless or crap or anything else.

 

[Zeren]

Other people haven't said they understand the rules probably because they know it's ridiculous to state that you know them. It should go without saying that when you create a character and log them into a restricted setting you agree to all the above terms.

All I'm saying Imreis is that we don't need leashes and need these things spoon-fed to us.

I've never gone to a police station and asked what counts as 'public indecency'...

Why should we have to do a similar thing to the administrators of this website? Change takes time, and we must be patient with all who are involved.

I agree with you entirely, Imreis, some of these rules may need some clarification if such misinterpretation is as wide-spread as it seems. But I really think there is just a silent majority of users out there wondering why such things are even being discussed.

 

[Ruthia]

Easy Gabe, it was just a suggestion. No need to shoot me down.

 

[Zeren]

Easy Gabe, it was just a suggestion. No need to shoot me down.

He gave you his reasons logically and calmly...

You proposed something and it was rationally rejected, dear. No shooting down or flaming whatsoever.

Stop playing the victim, it never helps your cause or argument.

 

[Magi_Gabriel]

I did post an example but just in case heres another

Demons, Devils, and Outsiders in general must be disguised. Disguised is defined such that anyone looking at such a character would see just another human, humanoid, or demihuman. Horns, hooves, tails, wings, all must be hidden from view. Sharpened teeth seen in a smile, perhaps a shifting of the disguise when angry or something, these are fine.

What about strange eyes and or skin pigmintation? Ive seen some intresting effects of diseases that can cause odd flesh tones or even interesting eye colors. Also, what is the time restriction on those shifting when angry moments? How long should that last?

What about strange eyes and or skin pigmentation? I'm sorry but you're asking a for a decisive answer to a blurry question and I simply can't write up a rule code or forum post to cover every possible eye/skin combination conceivable in the fantasy genre.

The document you are requesting on odd colourings will run into the thousands of pages and be read by nobody. If you had a specific combination you wanted to check the status of: There's a forum to ask in

The same applies to diseases, we're not going to go through every disease (real and fictional) and write how the symptoms may effect it because it would run into the thousands and thousands of pages.

For time restrictions: A short amount of time so that it doesn't become obvious to everyone around you that you're really a ... whatever you are. Since circumstances can change how likely it is for people to notice and the level of shifting in play is an obvious x factor, we cannot provide a more objective answer.

But you're free to ask on the forums or by email if you're planning something and want to be sure.

Never stated 'Demon' in particular, that rule also applies to Outsiders, Devils, Celestials and anything else not of Oreth actually as in terms - an Outsider is ANYTHING not native to the plane they are currently on. SO a human from Faerun being on Oreth is an Outsider if you want to get down the bone of the issue. And besides, you are the only one so far to say that you understand the rules well enough. There is other people out there I am sure who agree with you and others who agree with me that there not quite clear enough. Doesn't matter if you have a full comprehension of linguistics or not. All I did is exactly what other people were doing. Pointing out things I -thought- could do with some alterations, not changes, alterations to help the situation of Enworld.

and to your newly added part, its WHY i pointed it out for a Magi to answer, because yes 13 seconds would be odd but it is a world of magic and the tavern itself has plenty of enchantments, it could very well have time triggers on it, it again, is WHY i asked

In DnD, at current publication, an Outsider was specifically a being from "outside" the Prime Material plane and had a racial classification in the monster manual and special rules relating to them in game terms. They're rather special and specific.

Your claim that the tavern "could have time triggers" falls under the same problem as requesting lists of acceptable and unacceptable colourations with the additional problem that it then comes across as in invitation for people to try to work around the rules.

The rules are simple for a reason, so everyone knows you have to follow them and so people can worry about role playing their characters and not referring to a massive rule code and then worrying about what if rule x contradicts rule y in this scenario.

For players who feel the setting rules for CRT got in the way of their fun, we opened up the Bazaar, which has an even simpler set of rules.

Easy Gabe, it was just a suggestion. No need to shoot me down.

You asked why we don't do it, I explained the full reasoning why we don't do it. If you have other suggestions, I will happily hear them but I simply cannot promise an affirmative answer to them. Sometimes things are simply not doable.

 

[John a.k.a Sir D]

He gave you his reasons logically and calmly...

You proposed something and it was rationally rejected, dear. No shooting down or flaming whatsoever.

Stop playing the victim, it never helps your cause or argument.

Problem is, they reject -everything-.

 

[Magi_Siani]

The key to the disguise portion is this bit *anyone looking at such a character would see just another human, humanoid, or demihuman.*

That's it. Any question about appearance can be answered by applying that bit right there. If any person, especially ordinary run of the mill townies giving a casual glance at someone sees just another person of human, humanoid, or demihuman type, the disguise is achieved. It is that simple.

Want odd eyes? How odd? Odd in what way? Color? Shape? What? I'm not going to even consider trying to rules lawyer these things. If your eyes would cause closer scrutiny by people such that they'd realize you aren't what you seem, they probably ought to be hidden in the Tavern. You can PM people you are speaking to closely if they get a glimpse of your eyes or disguised bits..., don't reveal it openly. RP it out, using PMs...and reacting to your own and other people's descriptions.

I don't really think the rules need more definition, since the more defined we get the more loopholes we create because we can't get everything. So they were written to be pretty simple...I had thought common sense was part of it. Want to know what they mean? Ask me.

I wrote the CoC and Tavern Setting Rules. I know them rather well. As I recall we floated these rules to people over on UH...the threads are still there I believe. I even rewrote some of them based on patron input. There were vanishingly few objections and the only real confusion came from the fighting rules, which I in fact did rewrite based in part on suggestions from Dontella if memory serves.

Oh, and one more thing: The various Setting Rules ARE part of the CoC. They are not less than, or separate from saving only where they are placed. They are rather like amendments to the CoC...definitely part of it and with equal force.

Siani

 

[Zeren]

Problem is, they reject -everything-.

Seeing some of the solutions that people are offering to near non-existent problems, I can certainly see why.

I'm sure if something was so severe it would be addressed, especially if people would bother bringing it up in a modest proposal.

 

[John a.k.a Sir D]

You are complaining John, stating that you are not does not change that. There is nothing inherently wrong with complaining provided you have a basis behind it. Kindly remember you do not have a basis to say who can have an opinion on what on these boards.

Actually, I stated that I wasn't. And I truly wasn't. I was merely stating facts. Is stating a fact complaining? I was just wondering if I was right about there only being 3-4 active Magi's. But anyway, I'm not going to argue that. Arguing about useless banter will only bring in angry emotions, and that is not something we need more of here.

What I am really wanting to know however is why the Magi's shoot down every suggestion ever made. It seems like they do so without really thinking on it...or perhaps it just seems that way.

 

[John a.k.a Sir D]

I would

Not all of us have the time for that.