The Reduction of Uncertainty

Reynard

Legend
One of the things that seems to be emerging from various 4E teasers is a reduction in the inherent uncertainty of D&D.

"The Math" strongly suggests that predictability, for both players and DMs, is an important tool for play. Therefore, it follows that uncertainty is bad -- it reduces predictability and in so doing undermines the choices made by both players and DMs.

One example is the revised critical rules: first of all, the random element of criticals (a 20; that's it) is predictable, and second, the results of the critical are more predictable (max damage plus some abilities/magic item effects). In 3E, criticals are both less predictable -- weapons have different crit ranges -- and the effects are less predictable -- weapons have different multipliers, and things liek power attack can really throw the numbers off. Another example is the saving throw rules (which also appear to extend to death and dying): the only variable appears to be relatively small modifiers and otherwise the results are based on predictable die ranges.

If the default method for stat generation is point buy, and hit points are no longer random, and skill progression is standardized, etc... players, DMs and even designers can more effectively predict the results of any given situation.

Now, I like uncertainty -- from character generation all the way to "ressurection survival rolls". However, the reduction of uncertainty has both good and bad points. On the upside, reducing uncertainty makes player/DM/designer skill to the test in a more real way. On the downside, the chance of truly amazing or terrible events, characters and results based on die rolls is eliminated.

Obviously, so long as the game uses dice, uncertainty will always be a part of it. But 4E appears to be designed to make it so that the die is less important, less powerful than it has traditionally been.
 

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FireLance

Legend
For want of better terms, I think 4e will have less "strategic" uncertainty, e.g. what are your ability scores/hit points, whether you will be able to beat your opponents in a fight, etc. and more "tactical" uncertainty, e.g. fewer auto-successes or failures on skill checks, and near auto-successes or failures on attack rolls, saving throws, etc.
 

jodyjohnson

Adventurer
As Firelance said, At the higher levels they may be less certain.
High level skill checks tend to be in the auto-succeed (for trained PCs) or auto fail range (no ranks PCs).
ACs tend to be in that range too - Full BAB almost always hits while Middle BAB will more than likely miss.
Same with getting hit - AC specialists are nearly unhittable while others always get hit barring concealment.

With Skills. Defences, and Attacks tightened up target numbers between the two ends are less certain in their results (since they depend more on the die roll).

If combat numbers are being intentially tweaked towards longer fights than even combat length has more room for being longer or shorter than expected. Our current high level fights tend to be very certain at around 2 rounds unless I keep adding foes in waves (which also die predictably fast).
 

For the record, Point buy is not the standard character generation method, there are three in the PHB (roll, array?, point buy), and none are "default".
 

Benimoto

First Post
This isn't a necessarily new idea. I seem to remember a sidebar in the DMG talking explicitly about the idea that additions that make the game more random will generally inflict their negative effects upon the players more than any particular monster. At least I think I remember that. All I can find right now is the sidebar on critical hits on page 26 which mentions the concept.

Certainly it seems that one of the goals we've seen expressed in 4th edition is "fewer random deaths". Both the critical hit rules and the revised death threshold speak to that. Neither revision eliminates the possibility of random death, but they both reduce it. Perhaps that is the main focus of their efforts, rather than reducing all randomness.
 

HeinorNY

First Post
small pumpkin man said:
For the record, Point buy is not the standard character generation method, there are three in the PHB (roll, array?, point buy), and none are "default".
Roll 4d6 is the standard method and is the only method in the PHB.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Reynard said:
One of the things that seems to be emerging from various 4E teasers is a reduction in the inherent uncertainty of D&D.

"The Math" strongly suggests that predictability, for both players and DMs, is an important tool for play. Therefore, it follows that uncertainty is bad -- it reduces predictability and in so doing undermines the choices made by both players and DMs.
And thus, "isn't fun"; a position with which I heartily disagree.

The corollary to this is speed of play - uncertainty slows things down, so we'd better get all that messy uncertainty out of the way, hadn't we? An example in another thread talks about a DM handwaving a combat between a halfway-powerful party and some street toughs; the DM says something like "There's a battle, you win easily"; the players respond "OK, we beat 'em up but let them live", and the DM carries on with the game. The problems here are numerous:

1. Who's to say that if the combat was run those street toughs would do some serious harm to someone, or even get lucky and kill a PC?

2. Once this precedent is set, as soon as the DM says "No, we'd better play out this one" the players know there's more to it than meets the eye and will react accordingly.

3. On a more general note, speeding things up and reducing uncertainty also reduces the ability of both the players and DM to hit the curveball...to react accordingly when things fail to go to plan. Example: if a high-level adventure is based around returning the Sword of Mighty Swordiness to its rightful owner, but halfway there the guy carrying it eats a fireball in what would otherwise be a pushover encounter and the Sword of Mighty Swordiness becomes the Sword of Mighty Meltiness...that's a curve thrown at the game that wouldn't happen had that seemingly-trivial encounter been handwaved.
If the default method for stat generation is point buy, and hit points are no longer random, and skill progression is standardized, etc... players, DMs and even designers can more effectively predict the results of any given situation.
The day my games get to the point I can predict the results of any given situation is the day I stop playing.

Lanefan
 


Kzach

Banned
Banned
Reynard said:
On the downside, the chance of truly amazing or terrible events, characters and results based on die rolls is eliminated.
I have to strongly disagree with this. Such things are up to roleplaying elements, not dice. Creating situations in which amazing or terrible things can happen is the DM's job. Dice just help players get there.
 


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