Keep on the Shadowfell character sheet scans
- Thread starter Daniel D. Fox
- Start date
Some very interesting stuff here. Between these and the D&D XP characters, a decent picture emerges.
I'm still very unimpressed with the wizard. Low amounts of area damage just don't matter much, particularly with the way hit points have been adjusted. Dropping foes matters. Singing a bunch has very little effect, because they can still act.
And yeah, I don't know whats going on with the half-elf. And the non-matching drawings are poorly done and annoying.
Overall I like what I see, but they built some of these characters very badly. Others definitely had to trade focus on some class features for focus on others. That I kind of like- choices with consequences are always good.
I do really find it unfortunate that some classes are more MAD than others. Having to double up on the same save is a definite disadvantage for some classes. It affects the two defenders equally, but I do think it may mean that, for example, warlords will be preferable to clerics. And that eventually as more classes come out, classes that don't have this problem will be better choices than classes that do.
I also wish they had taken 6 more pages to squeeze in the other 3 classes. Having a choice of pregens would have made this module a bit better.
This cleric and paladin are very different from the D&D XP ones. They've essentially switched places- the D&D XP cleric was amazing, this one is fairly mediocre. At the same time, this paladin is amazing in combat, while the halfling paladin from XP was mediocre. The difference a good or bad build make is very, very striking.
This cleric seems to be lacking mostly because of its stat allocation. They just aren't working well with its powers- not having an 18 or 20 in prime stat comes across as a big mistake, and the encounter power is crazy bad working off the low strength bonus. Its aggravated slightly by requiring two stats that feed into the same save. The fighter also suffers a bit from these problems,
Valiant strike is an amazing power. Its both very impressive without being completely overwhelming and very much in keeping with the class. Get into the thick of it and flail away. Add in divine might when you really need to crack open someone's skull. I approve. The whole class seems to hit its theme better than it ever has before, and unlike the last couple editions, it actually feels like it has a point. Its worth noting that if a paladin uses a sword (or other +3 prof weapon), maxes strength out to 20, and takes the fighter training feat, he's attacking a minimum of +10, all the time with valiant strike, at first level).
The Rogue is also impressive. sneak attack still feels inferior to hunters quarry and warlock's curse due to the conditions it needs, but this guy is going to be all over the place, stabbing away. Sly Flourish cranks his damage up quite a bit too.
I'm still very unimpressed with the wizard. Low amounts of area damage just don't matter much, particularly with the way hit points have been adjusted. Dropping foes matters. Singing a bunch has very little effect, because they can still act.
And yeah, I don't know whats going on with the half-elf. And the non-matching drawings are poorly done and annoying.
Overall I like what I see, but they built some of these characters very badly. Others definitely had to trade focus on some class features for focus on others. That I kind of like- choices with consequences are always good.
I do really find it unfortunate that some classes are more MAD than others. Having to double up on the same save is a definite disadvantage for some classes. It affects the two defenders equally, but I do think it may mean that, for example, warlords will be preferable to clerics. And that eventually as more classes come out, classes that don't have this problem will be better choices than classes that do.
I also wish they had taken 6 more pages to squeeze in the other 3 classes. Having a choice of pregens would have made this module a bit better.
This cleric and paladin are very different from the D&D XP ones. They've essentially switched places- the D&D XP cleric was amazing, this one is fairly mediocre. At the same time, this paladin is amazing in combat, while the halfling paladin from XP was mediocre. The difference a good or bad build make is very, very striking.
This cleric seems to be lacking mostly because of its stat allocation. They just aren't working well with its powers- not having an 18 or 20 in prime stat comes across as a big mistake, and the encounter power is crazy bad working off the low strength bonus. Its aggravated slightly by requiring two stats that feed into the same save. The fighter also suffers a bit from these problems,
Valiant strike is an amazing power. Its both very impressive without being completely overwhelming and very much in keeping with the class. Get into the thick of it and flail away. Add in divine might when you really need to crack open someone's skull. I approve. The whole class seems to hit its theme better than it ever has before, and unlike the last couple editions, it actually feels like it has a point. Its worth noting that if a paladin uses a sword (or other +3 prof weapon), maxes strength out to 20, and takes the fighter training feat, he's attacking a minimum of +10, all the time with valiant strike, at first level).
The Rogue is also impressive. sneak attack still feels inferior to hunters quarry and warlock's curse due to the conditions it needs, but this guy is going to be all over the place, stabbing away. Sly Flourish cranks his damage up quite a bit too.
I added up the stats using traditional point buy.
And did it by dropping the two highest stats by 2 for every character.
And the Dragonborn Paladin is a 30 point build.
The Dwarven Fighter is 28 Points.
Half-Elf Cleric 28 Points
Halfling Rogue 30 points
Human Wizard 28 points
The three characters with 16's though Dragon Born, Halfling, and human. May be the source of oddities. Or more precisely the human wizard.
If they did point buy, straight 1 for 1 up to 16 for example. That would make the Dragonborn and Halfling drop to 28 point buys. But by that same decision, then the human wizard drops to 26.
So not sure where their math on this went wrong. But at this point, you would expect them to finally stop trying to obfuscate their actual point buy method. And would show us. And then we can work on fixing whichever ones are off.
Cause either it's the paladin and rogue, or there are bizarre reasons for it that they should just explain.
And did it by dropping the two highest stats by 2 for every character.
And the Dragonborn Paladin is a 30 point build.
The Dwarven Fighter is 28 Points.
Half-Elf Cleric 28 Points
Halfling Rogue 30 points
Human Wizard 28 points
The three characters with 16's though Dragon Born, Halfling, and human. May be the source of oddities. Or more precisely the human wizard.
If they did point buy, straight 1 for 1 up to 16 for example. That would make the Dragonborn and Halfling drop to 28 point buys. But by that same decision, then the human wizard drops to 26.
So not sure where their math on this went wrong. But at this point, you would expect them to finally stop trying to obfuscate their actual point buy method. And would show us. And then we can work on fixing whichever ones are off.
Cause either it's the paladin and rogue, or there are bizarre reasons for it that they should just explain.
Gloombunny
First Post
Maybe humans only get one floating +2?
jeffhartsell
First Post
The Dragonborn is 32 points using what people have determined is the new method:
8 = 0
9 = 1
10 = 2
11 = 3
12 = 4
13 = 5
14 = 7
15 = 9
16 = 11
17 = 14
18 = 18
11+4+2+3+5+7=32
8 = 0
9 = 1
10 = 2
11 = 3
12 = 4
13 = 5
14 = 7
15 = 9
16 = 11
17 = 14
18 = 18
11+4+2+3+5+7=32
hbarsquared
Quantum Chronomancer
Here's a thought, given the unsatisfactory character sheets -
Perhaps the copies of KotS is indeed a literal preview copy, as in, not from the final print run? I know bookstores sometimes receive "preview" copies of novels that don't quite match up, edit-wise, to the final publication.
Perhaps we are seeing something similar, here? I hope...
Perhaps the copies of KotS is indeed a literal preview copy, as in, not from the final print run? I know bookstores sometimes receive "preview" copies of novels that don't quite match up, edit-wise, to the final publication.
Perhaps we are seeing something similar, here? I hope...
1. The dwarf is a 36 point buy not counting ability score boosts. So is the half elf. So is the human. The dragonborn is 40 point buy not counting ability score boosts. So is the halfling. What we can derive from this I do not know.
2. I think that power attack is -2 attack, +stat. Probably +Str.
3. Healing Word is just +1d6 and not +1d6+3 because the Healing Lore ability is written out on the character sheet. If it were included, AND healing lore were written out, people would use 1d6+6.
4. Lay on Hands is probably usable Wis times per day.
5. I really like the idea of a dragonborn as a paladin. The availability of the dragon breath for clearing out low level enemies, coupled with the challenge to try to pin down high level enemies, is appealing. Very versatile.
6. The paladin's challenge damage is probably 5+Wis. I'd say that was high, except that its so easily avoided. I, personally, have no problem with a paladin challenging a foe and then attacking it at range. "Come and get me!"
2. I think that power attack is -2 attack, +stat. Probably +Str.
3. Healing Word is just +1d6 and not +1d6+3 because the Healing Lore ability is written out on the character sheet. If it were included, AND healing lore were written out, people would use 1d6+6.
4. Lay on Hands is probably usable Wis times per day.
5. I really like the idea of a dragonborn as a paladin. The availability of the dragon breath for clearing out low level enemies, coupled with the challenge to try to pin down high level enemies, is appealing. Very versatile.
6. The paladin's challenge damage is probably 5+Wis. I'd say that was high, except that its so easily avoided. I, personally, have no problem with a paladin challenging a foe and then attacking it at range. "Come and get me!"
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