generalhenry
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Dragoon v .7
generalhenry
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well to drum up comments
DRAGOON'S CHALLENGE
Every time you attack an enemy, whether the
attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that
target. The mark lasts until the end of your next
turn. While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty
to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include
you as a target. A creature can be subject to only
one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark
that was already in place.
In addition, whenever a marked enemy moves or
shifts adjacent to you, you can make a melee basic
attack against that enemy as an immediate
interrupt.
DRAGOON'S CHALLENGE
Every time you attack an enemy, whether the
attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that
target. The mark lasts until the end of your next
turn. While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty
to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include
you as a target. A creature can be subject to only
one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark
that was already in place.
In addition, whenever a marked enemy moves or
shifts adjacent to you, you can make a melee basic
attack against that enemy as an immediate
interrupt.
generalhenry
First Post
New Multiclassing Feats
Cavalry [Multiclass Dragoon]
Prerequisite: Str 13
Benefit: You gain training in Athletics.
In addition once per encounter you can take further actions after a charge.
Cavalry [Multiclass Dragoon]
Prerequisite: Str 13
Benefit: You gain training in Athletics.
In addition once per encounter you can take further actions after a charge.
Interesting.
I like the idea of the Dragoon, but your write up is a bit of a mess and hard to understand (not trying to be a jerk; I understand it's a work in progress).
Let's start with Leap
Leap: a charge where you must make a high jump or a long jump as part of the movement.
Q1: What happens if you don't make your long jump? I.E. Dragoon runs two squares and jumps, hoping to travel another 3 squares to land next to an enemy and make an attack (as per the "Leap Attack" power). What happens if the Dragoon doesn't roll high enough on the Athletics check and only jumps 2 squares? Has the Dragoon now used his Standard Action to move 4 squares? Or is the "Leap Attack" now just considered a Move Action since that's all that happened?
Q2: How is this different from a Charge? All you're really doing is giving the Dragoon a chance to fail a charge by rolling poorly on an Athletics check.
Q3: If you do a high jump as part of the Leap does it provoke AoO? Ex: There is an enemy 3 squares away. That means you have enough room to charge (you have to move 2 squares) and then you can do a High Jump to use the "Leap Attack" ability. Wouldn't a high jump right next to an opponent let that opponent get an AoO? I mean, it's basically a move action right next to an enemy.
Next: Impale
I'm just plain confused by this one.
"As part of an impale attack the dragoon has the option to hold onto the spear if he's in reach".
Q4: Why wouldn't he be in reach? Are you suggesting that the Dragoon might throw his spear as part of an impale attack? If so, then I have to ask how this works? I don't remember any spears in the Player's Handbook that can be used as ranged weapons. Am I misssing something? Or maybe you would just use the entry for an improvised ranged weapons?
Imaple also says "A dragoon can continue to make attacks against a held target".
Q5: If the dragoon is holding the spear and the target is grabbed, how does the dragoon continue to make attacks? Is he attacking with another weapon in his off hand? Aren't spears two handed weapons? Or is he just renching the spear back and forth?
Imaple also says "A target that simply has a spear in him can remove the spear as a standard action"
Q6: What effect does "simply having a spear in him" cause? I.E. what is the game mechanic reason for the target to use his standard action to remove the spear? Is he taking ongoing damage? Does the impaled spear slow the target?
Next: Dive
Q7: Do you see a lot of opportunities for this to work? How often is the Dragoon going to be starting on ground above an enemy?
Leap Attack (power):
This power just seems overpowered. With this power and the Dragon Jump ability, a dragoon can move his full speed, jump at the end of his speed, land next to a target, attack the target, and then move his full movement away from the target without provoking an AoO. Wow.
Jab (power):
The "Hit" for this power should only be 1[W]. There are similar powers (a fighter's "Sure Strike") and that's how they work.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alright, now that I've talked about what you wrote, I'd like to give some suggestions, or at least tell you how I'd writeup this class, or at least some of the abilities you've already mentioned.
"Spring Attack" and "Dragoon's Challenge" are fine by me as is, though I will probably remove "Spring Attack" because I am not going to make the "Leap" abilities require a charge. See below.
"Dragon Jump" I like this too, but I really think you need to base the Dragoon's other abilities (like the "Leap Attack") off of this ability.
Leap: Keyword for powers
When a power has the "Leap" keyword, a Dragoon must make a Standing Long Jump or Standing High Jump as part of the attack or power.
Standing Long Jump: (You would use the standing long jump to use powers with the "Leap" keyword against enemies that are not in melee range)
Make a long jump as if you had a running start (as per the Dragon Jump ability). If you jump two or more squares, and land next to your target, you get a +1 bonus to both the attack roll of the power and the damage roll of the power and the movement (jump) does not provoke an AoO.
Special: If your Athletics check is not high enough to land next to your target, than the power is not used and you only expend a Move Action (if the power was a Standard Action)
{Jumping over 2 squares is only an Athletics check of 10. A first level Dragoon, with 16 str and trained in Athletics would have a +8 and would only have to roll a 2 to get the bonus to this power.}
{To Explain the "Special" part of this ability: Let's say that your target is 5 squares away. To land next to the target with a long jump, the Dragoon must make an Athletics check of 15
(15/5 is 3 sqaures. Jumping over 3 squares the Dragoon would land in the fourth square, which is next to the target that was 5 squares away)
If the Dragoon only got a 14 on his Athletics check he would land one square short and would not be in melee range of the target. In this case the Dragoon would only spend a Move Action, since all he did was jump}
Standing High Jump: (You would use the standing high jump to use powers with the "Leap" keyword against enemies that are in melee range)
Make a standing high jump as if you had a running start (as per the Dragon Jump ability). If your reach on the stading high jump is 10' or higher, than you get a +1 bonus to both the attack roll and damage roll of the power and the jump does not provoke an AoO. If you do not make the Athletics check, then you do not get the bonus and the movement (jump) provokes AoO.
{The stading high jump is a little harder to calculate, simply because the height of the characeter changes the result.
Ex1: A 6' tall Dragoon would have to make an Athletics check of 10 or higher to get the bonus: 10/5 = 2'. 2' + 6*4/3(8) = 10'
Ex2: A 4' tall Halfling Dragoon would have to make an Athletcis check of 24 to get the bonus: 24/5 = 4.8'. 4.8' + 4*4/3(5.3333) = 10.1333')
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I would like to write more, but I don't have the time at the moment.
Please tell me what you think of what I've said (Even if it's "Stupid Fing Verision, trying to destroy my awesome class!)
I like the idea of the Dragoon, but your write up is a bit of a mess and hard to understand (not trying to be a jerk; I understand it's a work in progress).
Let's start with Leap
Leap: a charge where you must make a high jump or a long jump as part of the movement.
Q1: What happens if you don't make your long jump? I.E. Dragoon runs two squares and jumps, hoping to travel another 3 squares to land next to an enemy and make an attack (as per the "Leap Attack" power). What happens if the Dragoon doesn't roll high enough on the Athletics check and only jumps 2 squares? Has the Dragoon now used his Standard Action to move 4 squares? Or is the "Leap Attack" now just considered a Move Action since that's all that happened?
Q2: How is this different from a Charge? All you're really doing is giving the Dragoon a chance to fail a charge by rolling poorly on an Athletics check.
Q3: If you do a high jump as part of the Leap does it provoke AoO? Ex: There is an enemy 3 squares away. That means you have enough room to charge (you have to move 2 squares) and then you can do a High Jump to use the "Leap Attack" ability. Wouldn't a high jump right next to an opponent let that opponent get an AoO? I mean, it's basically a move action right next to an enemy.
Next: Impale
I'm just plain confused by this one.
"As part of an impale attack the dragoon has the option to hold onto the spear if he's in reach".
Q4: Why wouldn't he be in reach? Are you suggesting that the Dragoon might throw his spear as part of an impale attack? If so, then I have to ask how this works? I don't remember any spears in the Player's Handbook that can be used as ranged weapons. Am I misssing something? Or maybe you would just use the entry for an improvised ranged weapons?
Imaple also says "A dragoon can continue to make attacks against a held target".
Q5: If the dragoon is holding the spear and the target is grabbed, how does the dragoon continue to make attacks? Is he attacking with another weapon in his off hand? Aren't spears two handed weapons? Or is he just renching the spear back and forth?
Imaple also says "A target that simply has a spear in him can remove the spear as a standard action"
Q6: What effect does "simply having a spear in him" cause? I.E. what is the game mechanic reason for the target to use his standard action to remove the spear? Is he taking ongoing damage? Does the impaled spear slow the target?
Next: Dive
Q7: Do you see a lot of opportunities for this to work? How often is the Dragoon going to be starting on ground above an enemy?
Leap Attack (power):
This power just seems overpowered. With this power and the Dragon Jump ability, a dragoon can move his full speed, jump at the end of his speed, land next to a target, attack the target, and then move his full movement away from the target without provoking an AoO. Wow.
Jab (power):
The "Hit" for this power should only be 1[W]. There are similar powers (a fighter's "Sure Strike") and that's how they work.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alright, now that I've talked about what you wrote, I'd like to give some suggestions, or at least tell you how I'd writeup this class, or at least some of the abilities you've already mentioned.
"Spring Attack" and "Dragoon's Challenge" are fine by me as is, though I will probably remove "Spring Attack" because I am not going to make the "Leap" abilities require a charge. See below.
"Dragon Jump" I like this too, but I really think you need to base the Dragoon's other abilities (like the "Leap Attack") off of this ability.
Leap: Keyword for powers
When a power has the "Leap" keyword, a Dragoon must make a Standing Long Jump or Standing High Jump as part of the attack or power.
Standing Long Jump: (You would use the standing long jump to use powers with the "Leap" keyword against enemies that are not in melee range)
Make a long jump as if you had a running start (as per the Dragon Jump ability). If you jump two or more squares, and land next to your target, you get a +1 bonus to both the attack roll of the power and the damage roll of the power and the movement (jump) does not provoke an AoO.
Special: If your Athletics check is not high enough to land next to your target, than the power is not used and you only expend a Move Action (if the power was a Standard Action)
{Jumping over 2 squares is only an Athletics check of 10. A first level Dragoon, with 16 str and trained in Athletics would have a +8 and would only have to roll a 2 to get the bonus to this power.}
{To Explain the "Special" part of this ability: Let's say that your target is 5 squares away. To land next to the target with a long jump, the Dragoon must make an Athletics check of 15
(15/5 is 3 sqaures. Jumping over 3 squares the Dragoon would land in the fourth square, which is next to the target that was 5 squares away)
If the Dragoon only got a 14 on his Athletics check he would land one square short and would not be in melee range of the target. In this case the Dragoon would only spend a Move Action, since all he did was jump}
Standing High Jump: (You would use the standing high jump to use powers with the "Leap" keyword against enemies that are in melee range)
Make a standing high jump as if you had a running start (as per the Dragon Jump ability). If your reach on the stading high jump is 10' or higher, than you get a +1 bonus to both the attack roll and damage roll of the power and the jump does not provoke an AoO. If you do not make the Athletics check, then you do not get the bonus and the movement (jump) provokes AoO.
{The stading high jump is a little harder to calculate, simply because the height of the characeter changes the result.
Ex1: A 6' tall Dragoon would have to make an Athletics check of 10 or higher to get the bonus: 10/5 = 2'. 2' + 6*4/3(8) = 10'
Ex2: A 4' tall Halfling Dragoon would have to make an Athletcis check of 24 to get the bonus: 24/5 = 4.8'. 4.8' + 4*4/3(5.3333) = 10.1333')
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I would like to write more, but I don't have the time at the moment.
Please tell me what you think of what I've said (Even if it's "Stupid Fing Verision, trying to destroy my awesome class!)
generalhenry
First Post
yep, that's why it's .5 and I didn't even include most the powers, The basics need refinement.
A1,2: yeah I had been think about that issue. It even goes further than that. Dragon jump is messy that way too.
I'm thinking of ditching the leap keyword for a charge keyword. It would be a loss of fluff, but I think it would be cleaner rules wise.
A3: Movement only provokes OAs if you leave threatened space.
A4: yes, many of the Impale key word attacks can be used with thrown javelins. As too why you would bother, there are higher level power that require impaled targets.
A5: He shoves the spear further into the target. I'll try to specify that. He can continue to attack the impaled target with the spear he's holding the target with. He can't use that spear on other targets. FYI spears and javelins are one handed and long spears are two handed.
A6: As I mentioned in A4, it's used for other dragoon powers (twisting it in the wound, pulling it out, grabbing onto it etc..). Though I have been thinking of doing more with it.
A7: The idea is the he'll use a high jump.
When you use it that way, it's a ranged attack with your move speed as the range.
It's on the strong side, but it's the class specialty, it should be on the strong side.
It's more powerful than sure strike, but that's balanced against it not having any synergy with the class features. Fighters get +1 to hit and rangers get quarry damage.
All the dragoons class features go to waste when they jab.
That and sure strike is considered to be a very weak at will so hmm. I might drop it down to +1 to hit.
Interesting concept, and one I was hoping someone would do.
A few comments:
Jab is fine. It requires two high stats, and Sure Strike is mathematically worse than a basic attack in many cases, so no ability for custom classes should ever be balanced on par with Sure Strike, in my opinion.
I'd worry about being too keyword dependent, and the reason I say this is I was initially very confused by Leap Attack. You could get around this by offering, say, a combat tricks and example section, however. Anything that is not obvious in utility should be explained (I made that mistake a couple times myself, but I'm trying to clean it up a bit).
I'd definitely like to see some level 1 encounter / daily and level 2 utility to get a better idea of where the class is going.
A few comments:
Jab is fine. It requires two high stats, and Sure Strike is mathematically worse than a basic attack in many cases, so no ability for custom classes should ever be balanced on par with Sure Strike, in my opinion.
I'd worry about being too keyword dependent, and the reason I say this is I was initially very confused by Leap Attack. You could get around this by offering, say, a combat tricks and example section, however. Anything that is not obvious in utility should be explained (I made that mistake a couple times myself, but I'm trying to clean it up a bit).
I'd definitely like to see some level 1 encounter / daily and level 2 utility to get a better idea of where the class is going.
generalhenry
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I like to think of it as errata friendly.
noted
I've got all the heroic power outlined I'll post them all soon.
I've also have the PPs out lined.
generalhenry
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wikified
updates and new material
updates and new material
generalhenry
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bump...
been working on it
been working on it
generalhenry
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updated
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