Help reign in a player who refuses to play his role

I don't know the guy, or how close of a friend he is, or how much the game means to you, so I can't give across-the-board advice about what to do.

However, it's important to recognize that this isn't about D&D, or RPGs in general, so a D&D or RPG specific answer isn't going to help you.

What would you do if you and your friends liked to play Scrabble, but he kept taking as long as possible, then playing words like "VANPLABO" and arguing that they were real?

What would you do if you and your friends liked to play tennis, but he kept hitting the ball over the fence into the bushes?

What would you do if you and your friends liked to watch DVDs, but he kept grabbing the remote and switching it to a French dub with English subtitles, so he could "pretend he's watching a foreign movie"?

I strongly suspect that whatever your answer would be to those things, you should do the same thing with him and D&D.

I think that the issues here are

a. The player is neither playing his role, nor roleplaying his role, nor even attempting to do the best he has with his character.

b. The player specifically is "rebelling" against contributing to the party to prove a "point".

c. The player is deliberately being a poor team player

Maybe you could warn him before next session that if he doesn't do his job he'll be kicked. Heck have your character warn his character in game. If he doesn't pony up, he'll have to roll up a new char.

AuraSeer said:

OK, why do you keep playing with him? If he ruins your good time, why is he still invited to game sessions? You're supposed to be having fun.

I've noticed that a lot of gamers treat RPG time as an obligation, rather than a social event. If they were doing anything else at all-- having a birthday party, going out to a club, seeing a movie, whatever-- they would only invite people they like, whom they think will be fun. Yet for a gaming session they will tolerate an irritating troublemaker, or even a downright abusive bully, just because that person wants to be in the game. I don't understand this at all.

Even in-game, why the heck would the other PCs put up with this guy? Why give a full share of their hard-earned treasure to some hoser who's useless in a fight? Any real adventurer would tell him to get bent.

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yeah - that's the question I'd ask.

Now, to be honest - I have, in my younger days, been in games/games groups/campaigns where I *thought* there was a valid reason to continue to tolerate excruciating people. I put up with, often, one single guy who made it his every action to dump on, screw with, belittle, and generally be a jerk to not just me, but everyone else. In ANY game we played in together.

And why did I put up with him? Because I *thought* that was the only way I'd get to play with (and thus spend time with) the OTHER people in the group. THAT was our single community social gathering. We all had such divergent schedules that this was the only time we could all get together. SO I put up with a guy that I literally wanted to reach out and strangle with my bare hands every game - simply because I *thought* he was the price I had to pay to hang with my other friends.

In a different D&D group - it was the only time I could get to hang with my older brother (who was the one who introduced me to D&D back in the day). SO, I put up with not one, but a couple of people who's only idea of fun was to ruin the fun of others.

I ended up leaving both of those games - but foolishly took it for waaaaaay too long before I left. I was much younger then.

These days - I don't put up with it. I learned that its just not worth the pain and aggravation. I can put up with a lot - but there comes a point when I have to say - "You're twisted idea of having fun at my expense - or the expense of my friends - is Totally unacceptable and I'm not going to put up with it any more."

As people, we are generally social creatures - and we will often put up with some pretty awful stuff just to stay "in with the group." At some point, you have to realize: either you stop sticking your hand in the garbage disposal just to "be one of the guys" - OR - you accept that you have *chosen* to take that pain, at which point you are equally to blame.

It really sounds like this particular player has always chosen to be a pain, and does so knowingly, NOT out of some high "role-playing" calling. Either speak up and be prepared to walk away - or accept that you're *choosing* to allow the conflict to continue.

loresjoberg said:

I don't know the guy, or how close of a friend he is, or how much the game means to you, so I can't give across-the-board advice about what to do.

However, it's important to recognize that this isn't about D&D, or RPGs in general, so a D&D or RPG specific answer isn't going to help you.

What would you do if you and your friends liked to play Scrabble, but he kept taking as long as possible, then playing words like "VANPLABO" and arguing that they were real?

What would you do if you and your friends liked to play tennis, but he kept hitting the ball over the fence into the bushes?

What would you do if you and your friends liked to watch DVDs, but he kept grabbing the remote and switching it to a French dub with English subtitles, so he could "pretend he's watching a foreign movie"?

I strongly suspect that whatever your answer would be to those things, you should do the same thing with him and D&D.

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Hey, are you Lore Sjoberg, of Brunching Shuttlecocks fame? Recently of Wired?

Man, this article was the best thing ever: http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/commentary/alttext/2008/06/alttext_0618

Thanks for that.

Anyway:

I quoted Lore because he spoke the truth. The OP's player is a douchebag. He should be dropped from the game, and your social circle.

-z

Btw, I don't disagree with the posters who are saying to drop the guy.

I'm just saying that if you're thinking of burning a bridge, do it the favour of inspecting it properly first.
-blarg

FadedC said:

A lot of people use roleplaying to justify playing an annoying or disruptive character. They ignore the fact that it's actually horrible roleplaying to play a character who would normally be kicked out by the group because you know your a PC and that can't happen to you without out of game reprecussions.

Personally I'd like to see one of those characters actually get booted out of the group, and the player forced to reroll.

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I got a player like this in my current game. I'm thinking of kicking him out. He doesn't seem to want to play. His first character was a dwarf fighter (the pregen actually) and he was all leeeeroooy jenkins! with it. His battle cry was, "I got this" as he ran into situations where he didn't actually have this. I'm pretty sure his dieing breath was "I got this".

His second character is a warlock that he didn't even make himself (the books were available, he asked someone else to make him a character, and he's the kind of guy who actually likes to think about game mechanics). This character is such a coward that he avoids danger altogether, even if it means the rest of the party, who are relying on him to help fight, die. He got hit by a minion with a ranged attack, and whined that he party's fighter had failed, and somehow thinks this is good roleplaying. If the rest of the party were being honest, they'd ask him to leave. I, at least, find his "roleplay" annoying, more than entertaining. And I don't think he likes it either, since he seems to be dead set on not having fun, and ruining it for others if possible.

OP:
Anyways, since you're a player in your game, just stop adventuring with the dude. You can even roleplay it. Ask him to stop following you around. Don't give him a share of loot. If he keeps following you around, kill him, and as, he's dieing, say, "I guess it was your time" for poetic justice.

I see no reason why the Raven Queen herself shouldn't step in and turn the craven Paladin into a raven for a few weeks. It is an unorthodox punishment, but D&D has a tradition of "bolts from the blue" raining down on difficult characters, because the DM deems it appropriate.

This character can't be relied upon to pull his load, and hence encounters need to be scaled down. As a bird, he will be less capable of causing trouble, and can only take as much treasure as he can flap away with.

Because that's bad storytelling. Players aren't interested in seeing a DM play with himself.

Better to say "rocks fall, everybody dies" every time someone is being an excessive tool.
Then the rest of the players can find their own ways of dealing with it.

loresjoberg said:

I don't know the guy, or how close of a friend he is, or how much the game means to you, so I can't give across-the-board advice about what to do.

However, it's important to recognize that this isn't about D&D, or RPGs in general, so a D&D or RPG specific answer isn't going to help you.

What would you do if you and your friends liked to play Scrabble, but he kept taking as long as possible, then playing words like "VANPLABO" and arguing that they were real?

What would you do if you and your friends liked to play tennis, but he kept hitting the ball over the fence into the bushes?

What would you do if you and your friends liked to watch DVDs, but he kept grabbing the remote and switching it to a French dub with English subtitles, so he could "pretend he's watching a foreign movie"?

I strongly suspect that whatever your answer would be to those things, you should do the same thing with him and D&D.

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QFT.

Don't try to apply an in-character solution to an out-of-character problem. The dude is quite deliberately being a dick. You know it and he knows it. There's no reason to put up with that kind of crap.

Out of character problems deserve out of character solutions.