Help reign in a player who refuses to play his role

[Lucas Blackstone]

I'm surprised everyone isn't in agreement that the player in question isn't just trying to ruin the game. This is excusable only if he has a learning disability or something else similar that would inhibit his understanding of the rules in most ways. To me and many others, it's obvious this guy is being an intentional jerk and ruining the fun of the game for the other players.

Ask him to leave, or ask the DM to ask him to leave. You don't have to never see him again, just don't invite him, or let him be invited to play RPGs with your group.

 

[Bill Bisco]

I suspect if this guy were a rogue, there'd be complaints about him never applying his sneak attack damage. Even internet folk are aware that complaining about people failing to use abilities they don't have is absurd.

My point is the fact that these players and the OP are metagaming about the character's abilities and how a Paladin should be played.

If epochrpg isn't assuming the reason here but has actually confirmed it, then we're likely dealing with something other than just a non-standard strategy.

An Item that did less damage would be a tiny dagger and a worse weapon would be a rock since he's not proficient in it. And frankly, a dagger has that +3 Proficiency bonus which is actually decent, and an argument can be made for choosing a higher hit bonus than damage die.

 

[Bill Bisco]

I'm surprised everyone isn't in agreement that the player in question isn't just trying to ruin the game. This is excusable only if he has a learning disability or something else similar that would inhibit his understanding of the rules in most ways. To me and many others, it's obvious this guy is being an intentional jerk and ruining the fun of the game for the other players.

Ask him to leave, or ask the DM to ask him to leave. You don't have to never see him again, just don't invite him, or let him be invited to play RPGs with your group.

How is this character ruining the fun of the game? By throwing daggers? Come on now.

 

[JohnBiles]

You seriously need to separate how you think a CLASS is supposed to be played from how the player wants to play it. Sticking in the back and using ranged attacks at the enemy is a valid strategy, Rangers do it all the time and if a Paladin wants to do it, more power to him.

Rangers are supposed to do it. They're Ranged Strikers. Whereas, this is a Paladin who never heals anyone, and hides in the back of the party when he has the best AC. Also, you basically can't use any of a Paladin's class powers with ranged weapons, other than what you identified (tag person with challenge, hide too far for them to attack you).

If his tactics were effective, I don't think epochrpg would be so unhappy with him, but it's clear he's leaving other PCs to be turned into kibble while he uses the wizard as a bodyshield, then refusing to heal them afterwards.

(That being said, the idea of a Halfing Paladin who uses thrown daggers intrigues me enough I'm trying to find some way to avoid it being ineffective)

 

[Arbitrary]

The only thing that really is a problem is his unwillingness to use heals. Other than that, meh. Like I said before, I've seen a ton of useless characters.

 

[Krensus]

How is this character ruining the fun of the game? By throwing daggers? Come on now.

I don't believe anyone is claiming that the heart of the matter is that he's throwing daggers, but the attitude that he's projecting. There are people trying to enjoy a game and he's ruining it to prove a point. No one cares about that he's ineffective in combat as much as the reason that he is.

I had a player try this in my first game of fourth edition. As I went through a basic run down of the rules, he would say "that's an ok rule, maybe I'll convert it to 3.5 use," or "that's just stupid, this is retarded." He played a wizard and intentionally picked ineffective spells or tried to showcase what he saw as flaws in the system. "Yeah, I just cast Burning Hands and didn't get an attack of opportunity from that guy. This system is so dumb, I cast a spell and I don't even have to concentrate...can I make an acrobatics to see if I can backflip while casting my next spell?"

Once he realized no one shared his point of view, especially after playing only half of our first session, he shut up and spent his action doing nothing, causing the death of the rogue and fighter because they were overwhelmed by minions that he could have swept aside with his daily or even encounter power. After that game, I asked him not to return to my game. He was welcome to come to the 3.5 my other friend still runs or to any other social event, and we were still friends, but that I wouldn't let his attitude be the make or break for the new edition in our circle.

Our games up until now have been great, another friend moved back into town and replaced him as a wizard. The mood is upbeat, and no one can wait to play until the next session, least of all me. We're still friends with that guy, I still see him on occasion, but he still tries to get his word in edgewise about the game. I think what you have to do is stop tiptoeing around the subject and say something to him about how his style of play makes you miserable and it's hurting the game. If you're in an area with a lot of gaming groups (I'm not), then consider moving on to another group if you cannot convince him to either leave or to discontinue his oppression. You'll be a lot happier and the game will either benefit from his absence or continue to go down in flames without your presence.

 

[BASHMAN]

Update: Friaday Night's Session

So Friday night we played again, Charter in hand. He was upset at us for "bullying him" and "telling him how to play his character"... but he signed the charter nonetheless. Our group even split into two groups (we had 10 players) and some of us suggested he may not want to be in our group with the charter, but he decided to stay nonetheless.

In the first round of the first combat, a minion did 4 damage to a party member. His action: "I use lay on hands." The next round another PC had like 1 damage left after the warlord (me) healed him. His action, "I use my last lay on hands for the day on him." Keeping to the letter of the charter, he squandered his daily healing resources in 2 rounds-- resources that are far more valuable than say the warlord's 2/encounter healing- because the target does not need to have a surge left. We mentioned how it was a waste to use it like that-- that it should be saved for an unconcious PC... and a big smile just came across his face.

Needless to say, he cast lay on hands the first 2 rounds of every combat per day, even if it was just lowly minions that never bloodied us. We had party members DODGING his lay on hands, so he said, "I guess this means you don't want me to heal you anymore!"

Despite this new aggrivation, in combat he was more effective this time-- he actually marked BBEGs and threw daggers at them from behind a living wall of other PCs-- this meant that they at least took 5 damage and -2 to hit us (the previous session he only marked henchmen & let the BBEG beat the snot out of us).

The New DM gave us only 1 treasure: a suit of small-sized black-iron plate mail. Guess who got it (despite the healing annoyance, he was being more effective, and selling something for 1/5th price is just too painful). He was shocked, but very grateful that we let him have it-- I think that broke the ice for the end of the session discussion.

At the end of the session, I just went to him and frankly said, "I'm sorry about this charter thing-- I bet it made the game less fun for you." He agreed. I continued, "well XXXX, when you purposefully do things like that just to upset us, it makes the game less fun for us, too, and it is to the point that we don't want to play with you anymore if you keep it up. But I know you can do better. When you actually marked the BBEG, suddenly your daggers-throwing was useful. We were glad you were on our team then. That's why we wanted you to have the plate-mail. Do you think you can try the same thing with the lay on hands-- save it for when someone really, really needs it? So next game, what do you say we begin afresh, and just do our best to make sure the game is fun for everyone?"

He agreed, so hopefully this will turn out right.

 

[Jhaelen]

In the first round of the first combat, a minion did 4 damage to a party member. His action: "I use lay on hands." The next round another PC had like 1 damage left after the warlord (me) healed him. His action, "I use my last lay on hands for the day on him." Keeping to the letter of the charter, he squandered his daily healing resources in 2 rounds-- resources that are far more valuable than say the warlord's 2/encounter healing- because the target does not need to have a surge left. We mentioned how it was a waste to use it like that-- that it should be saved for an unconcious PC... and a big smile just came across his face.

Needless to say, he cast lay on hands the first 2 rounds of every combat per day, even if it was just lowly minions that never bloodied us. We had party members DODGING his lay on hands, so he said, "I guess this means you don't want me to heal you anymore!"

Your group must be truly remarkably calm. In any of the games I participate in the guy would have been forcibly removed from the game table after pulling such a stunt and told to go **** *******.

If he wants to be a ********, he can go and waste someone else's time - sheesh!

 

[Obryn]

How is this character ruining the fun of the game? By throwing daggers? Come on now.

No, by being a dillweed.

Have you read the posts? I mean, there's playing a unique character, there's playing a sub-optimal character, and there's lawn-crapping. The player's a shining example of Option 3.

-O

 

[the Jester]

At the end of the session, I just went to him and frankly said, "I'm sorry about this charter thing-- I bet it made the game less fun for you." He agreed. I continued, "well XXXX, when you purposefully do things like that just to upset us, it makes the game less fun for us, too, and it is to the point that we don't want to play with you anymore if you keep it up. But I know you can do better. When you actually marked the BBEG, suddenly your daggers-throwing was useful. We were glad you were on our team then. That's why we wanted you to have the plate-mail. Do you think you can try the same thing with the lay on hands-- save it for when someone really, really needs it? So next game, what do you say we begin afresh, and just do our best to make sure the game is fun for everyone?"

He agreed, so hopefully this will turn out right.

Awesome! Good luck, and please let us know what happens!