AV: Double Sword: Light blade And Heavy blade?

Rechan · Oct 5, 2008

The Double Sword info says that it's two longswords stuck together. However, it's considered a light blade AND a heavy blade.

Is the off-hand a light blade? Is the whole thing a light blade?

Because the way I read it, this is the best melee weapon for a rogue. It's on par with a rapier (One feat, +3, 1d8) but it also grants +1 to AC for defense. Not to mention it qualifies you for the TWDefense feat.

cignus_pfaccari · Oct 5, 2008

It appears that the MH part is a Heavy Blade, and the OH part is a Light Blade.

As such, it's not going to be what a rogue would want, since most/all of their powers require a Light Blade, and the MH ain't one.

Tempest Fighter? Yes. Ranger? Sure, why not. But rogues, no.

Brad

Gloombunny · Oct 5, 2008

cignus_pfaccari said:
It appears that the MH part is a Heavy Blade, and the OH part is a Light Blade.

It doesn't appear that way to me. I mean, you could decide to go that way with it anyway 'cuz you think it makes more sense, but RAW it seems plain that the entire weapon is both a heavy blade and a light blade. Nothing in the text about double weapons or the double sword suggests otherwise.

Kaelkatar · Oct 5, 2008

Even if the main hand is a heavy blade, the offhand can be attacked with for all rogue powers. The only two downsides that occur are you don't get the +1 damage for two weapon fighting, and you don't get to use weapon daily powers that are part of an attack.

For a rogue that doesn't take TWF and uses something like duelists, so the magic ability still functions, it seems pretty legit to me.

DracoSuave · Oct 5, 2008

Thing to remember with -any- double weapon is that it's not 'two weapons stuck end to end'. That's not really how they work, nor how they are fought with.

Double Swords are NOT swordchucks.

They are a distinct weapon, where proficiency in it requires using -both- ends effectively to parry and strike. You don't fight with them like you do a sword -at all.- They are closer to a quarterstaff in terms of how they are used.

Which means that if you're 'proficient' in one side of it, to -be- proficient you have to be proficient with the other. Which is why it's both a heavy blade and a light blade, because even if you're 'attacking' with the heavy blade, the light blade is still a part of your actual attack motion.

Halbards, fas an example, didn't just have an axe on a big pole. It had an axe, a pike, and a heavy butted end, the entire weapon was what was used in combat, not just one singular blade.

That One Guy · Oct 5, 2008

Gloombunny said:
It doesn't appear that way to me. I mean, you could decide to go that way with it anyway 'cuz you think it makes more sense, but RAW it seems plain that the entire weapon is both a heavy blade and a light blade. Nothing in the text about double weapons or the double sword suggests otherwise.

The Double Weapons blurb says the first die is the primary (or main) end of the weapon. The second damage die is for the secondary (or off-hand) end.

...it's not quite a clear definition of what they mean (but so little in this game is). However, I read it as Heavy(main)/Light(off). Sort of how the Urgosh is Main/D12/Axe and Off/D8/Spear. Granted... this is a 4e WotC product, so I could be very easily wrong.

Gloombunny · Oct 5, 2008

That One Guy said:
The Double Weapons blurb says the first die is the primary (or main) end of the weapon. The second damage die is for the secondary (or off-hand) end.

...it's not quite a clear definition of what they mean (but so little in this game is). However, I read it as Heavy(main)/Light(off). Sort of how the Urgosh is Main/D12/Axe and Off/D8/Spear. Granted... this is a 4e WotC product, so I could be very easily wrong.

But the urgrosh description says that one end is an axe and the other is a spear. The double sword description does not say that one end is a heavy blade and the other a light blade. It isn't really comparable.

That One Guy · Oct 5, 2008

Gloombunny said:
But the urgrosh description says that one end is an axe and the other is a spear. The double sword description does not say that one end is a heavy blade and the other a light blade. It isn't really comparable.

I think because there is one side that is to be considered a Light Blade, then that side is the off-hand side. But, I mean... it's really to be decided by one's DM/group, ne? Like, I really think it is incredibly unclear and in my mind this makes the most sense to me. Other groups/people would disagree and I can really just say, "That makes sense too."

Dalamar · Oct 5, 2008

I'm probably going to rule that each character picking up the double sword proficiency chooses whether he/she treats it as a light blade or a heavy blade (and can, of course, retrain the feat to change the choice).
Though first I'm going to run it counting as both, to see if there are any problems. And considering the group that is most likely to come up with this, I don't think it'll matter.

darkadelphia · Oct 5, 2008

It's a superior weapon--counting as both is part of what you pay for. As for the off-hand/on-hand thing, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think that really matters to anyone except rangers. You can always attack with your off-hand and there are no penalties to do so. Am I right? So, for Rogues, they should, RAW, be able to be smacking people around, pretty much exclusively, with the light blade side.

It's not really an issue to me. the superior weapon feat, in general, gives you +1 damage over an equivalent military weapon. The Double Sword does a d8 damage instead of the d6 of a short sword. It's right in line with where it should be.