How do you feel about the Open Design 4E conversion?

Alzrius

The EN World kitten

• Jan 13, 2009

• #1

Originally, the plan for Wolfgang Baur's new Open Design project, Halls of the Mountain King, was to have patrons choose to support either 3.5 or 4E, and whichever version received enough money would be the version that got made, with patrons for the other version receiving a full refund.

At some point, after the 3.5 version pulled ahead, some people began to discuss making a 4E conversion of the 3.5 version if it won. Wolfgang took note of this idea and heartily approved, deciding to officially back such a project (I'm not sure what his level of involvement with the conversion will be) - in contrast, he stated that there likely wouldn't be a 3.5 conversion if the 4E patrons reached the goal first (though to be fair, he did leave it open).

What I'm curious about is, how do Open Design patrons of all stripes feel about this? That is, what do you think Open Design starting out as a competition between 3.5 and 4E, and then deciding to become both 3.5 and 4E when it appeared that the former was winning?

 

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Halivar

First Post

• Jan 13, 2009

• #2

Perhaps he believes 4E players would be more willing to buy a 3E supplement for conversion than 3E players would be willing to buy a 4E supplement for conversion? Pure, wild speculation, which is pretty much all you're going to get until WB 'splains the situation more.

EDIT: No need for straw poll... there's a poll on the thread! Stupid me!

 

Last edited: Jan 13, 2009

X

xero

First Post

• Jan 13, 2009

• #3

Alzrius said:

in contrast, he stated that there likely wouldn't be a 3.5 conversion if the 4E patrons reached the goal first.

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I'm 100% positive that's not what he meant. He meant that there weren't any talks for a 4E->3.5 conversion because no one had requested it... it's kind of moot when 3.5 is ahead.

I thought it was pretty clear from what he said that if 4E had gained a lead and the 3.5 supporters had asked for a conversion, he'd give it serious consideration.

 

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer

• Jan 13, 2009

• #4

I don't understand.

Isn't it taking edition wars a bit far to begrudge one side or the other a conversion? What does it hurt you if you get the product you want at a price you're willing to pay?

Maybe there is something about patronage I don't get. :shrug:

 

Charwoman Gene

Adventurer

• Jan 13, 2009

• #5

Consider that this may be all about $$, ultimately.

Patronage is all about being greedy with the patronized artist resources.
A 3.5 fan has no use for a 4e conversion, his time spent on that is "wasted". He should be back on the grindstone, cause they paid for his servitude and stuff.

So the 3.5 folk want to keep him out of the 4e land. He wants to make money so having a 4e conversion which is easier than a whole new project, and allows him to test the 4e waters and reach more people.

 

Glyfair

Explorer

• Jan 13, 2009

• #6

I'm not a patron of this project. I was going to join for 4E, once I had freed up some cash, but it hit the 3.5 first. I have no real interest in a "conversion." If it's not designed with 4E in mind, I am not interested*.

I have to admit, I am not too fond of the fact that these projects are now fund raising races. I much prefer that a project be announced as 4E or 3E from the beginning and letting them gather the patrons they gather. It is just inflaming the "edition war" mentality out there as it is (not as bad as elsewhere on the internet, though). Given Wolfgang has a number of additional designers working with him (or even with their own projects...Nic Logue), having two running concurrently should be interesting.

* That's not a catch all. At these prices I am not interested. I am more than willing to use an old adventure or discounted adventure and convert it myself or even use someone else's conversion if it looks good.

 

R

Rechan

Adventurer

• Jan 13, 2009

• #7

Glyfair said:

I have to admit, I am not too fond of the fact that these projects are now fund raising races. I much prefer that a project be announced as 4E or 3E from the beginning and letting them gather the patrons they gather.

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Also, you know, he could just use the Patron notion as a deciding factor. Not a fundraising war, but:

The idea of patronage being used is "If enough people sign up, then I'll do it. If they don't, I don't." If not enough 4e patrons signed on to make it worth it to him, I could understand him deciding to go with 3e.

But if both sides are capable of being met, then... I think it would be best for the sake of polite discourse if I did not express my opinions.

Suffice to say, I will be asking for a refund.

 

S

Starglim

Explorer

• Jan 13, 2009

• #8

I'm not a patron this time around (I'm edition neutral - the project I was interested in wasn't on offer) but it seems to me the point of mentioning the 50 4e patrons was that those people have paid in funds at the outset which were not included in the amount required for the commission, so they could reasonably expect to get some additional work for their money.

For OGL patrons to begrudge that is no more or less sensible than to complain about Wolfgang Baur working on both Tales of Zobeck and Wrath of the River King. It's paid for separately and just happens to compete for the same finite amount of design time and energy (and, as I understand it, will happen after the OGL design is done anyway?)

 

Last edited: Jan 13, 2009

ProfessorCirno

Banned

Banned

• Jan 13, 2009

• #9

First option for me. The more people that can get stuff, the better, not just for him financially, but for gaming period. I love getting new 3.5 goodies, and I'm pretty happy when 4e gets them too.

If this was an either-or thing, then I'd rather it be a OGL only development, but it's not. I'm not ambivilent towards it either - I honestly do perfer 4e getting cool stuff with 3.5. Again, it's good for the developer, it's good for the gamer, and it's good for the industry.

Who cares what it's developed first? 4e was developed as a carry on from 3.5. That's why it's, you know, called fourth edition. Because there was a first, second, and third. Are you going to boycott all of 4e because the developers took ideas from 3.5 suppliments? Are you going to refuse to play 4e because you hated 3.5 that much? I found it doubtful. So why the anger that a 4e product comes from non-4e roots? Likewise, if it were first developed for 4e and then converted out, why would it be a big deal? Cool stuff is cool stuff, regardless of what it's first made for.

 

Festivus

First Post

• Jan 13, 2009

• #10

Glyfair said:

I'm not a patron of this project. I was going to join for 4E, once I had freed up some cash, but it hit the 3.5 first. I have no real interest in a "conversion." If it's not designed with 4E in mind, I am not interested.

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Not that I have money for these anymore, but I agree, I would like to see a 4E adventure that can have a 3.5 conversion rather than the opposite. Having converted a 3.5 adventure into 4e, one of the big changes I found was the terrain and maps needed to be different to accomodate the playstyle of 4E a bit better. I ended up doubling the number of squares per 5 feet and it worked out ok, but made the map massive.