Swords & Wizardry?

thedungeondelver · Mar 28, 2009

Been out of the loop too long. Too much bad stuff happening which requires liberal applications of escapism, so, having said that:

What's the deal with SWORDS & WIZARDRY. Another AD&D-like clone?

(Pardon my densosity; I'm beat tired and yes I can read the website but I'm dead tired and therefore dense.)

miscreationist · Mar 28, 2009

thedungeondelver said:
Been out of the loop too long. Too much bad stuff happening which requires liberal applications of escapism, so, having said that:

What's the deal with SWORDS & WIZARDRY. Another AD&D-like clone?

(Pardon my densosity; I'm beat tired and yes I can read the website but I'm dead tired and therefore dense.)

I recently spent some time reading through these rules. The Core Rules seem to be a OD&D (the original three booklets) recreation with select additions from some of the later supplements most notably Supplement I: Greyhawk. The White Box version tries to be as faithful as possible to just the original three booklets.

Some notable differences from the originals are more modern options (not required) to use ascending Armor Class instead of the traditional descending armor class. The White Box version also splits out Base To Hit bonus like Base Attack Bonus in 3rd edition and brakes up the progression across levels a bit more than the original. One other major difference is the use of a single save instead of the many specific ones. There are some other differences due to legal reasons, but the ones I mentioned are the major ones, I believe. Swords & Wizardry should allow you to ease players into the game that may have played recent editions of D&D.

Overall, I've thoroughly enjoyed reading through the two sets of rules. If I've missed some other item that is a major difference from the originals, please enlighten me, I'd love to know.

Hairfoot · Mar 28, 2009

I'm moving from 4E to S&W ASAP. Just have to tidy up my current campaign.

Ariosto · Mar 28, 2009

There are, for reasons legal and otherwise, myriad differences in detail from the original "little brown brown books" -- which are for a pittance available in PDF from RPGNow, if one wants the genuine article in all its Gygaxian glory.

FWIW, S&W is another brainchild of the fellow who instigated OSRIC. It's less an attempt at restatement, more a personal take.

Some spell names that were familiar in S&W core were for some reason changed in White Box. Ability-score factors in the latter are closer to O/AD&D, in the former to the Basic/Expert sets; in both versions, they are more standardized than in O/AD&D.

The new books focus on dungeon expeditions, giving but scant attention to the other campaign aspects treated in their prototypes.

They're pretty handy rules-sets, though, and free PDFs for new players may be an asset.

JeffB · Mar 28, 2009

I posted a very "basic" review over at DF several months back.

amethal · Mar 29, 2009

It appears to be someone's take on OD&D. There's a free licence if you want to write supplements for it, but you have to give two AC values (one ascending, one descending).

Part of me loves it. I shudder to think how much of my (3rd edition) D&D sessions are taken up by looking up whether special ability x is a free action or a swift action, whether Slow is a Fortitude save or a Will save, whether any of my numerous existing miscellaneous Save bonuses are competence bonuses so won't stack with my new ioun stone etc. etc.

This is wasted time in which I could be role-playing my character, which is what I play the game for.

But :-

AC has to be shown ascending and descending? Make your mind up whether you want to be true to the original or use the modern improved method.

"To hit" tables. I was glad to replace them with THAC0 and was delighted by BAB. Two AC values actually make them worse than it was in the original game.

There's a great "rules light" core ringed by unnecessary complicated rules (do we really need all those weapon types?) floating in a big sea of "rules non-existent" - how much do you want to rely on your DM to adjudicate patiently, competently, consistently and fairly?

Mythmere1 · Mar 30, 2009

There are two versions. The WhiteBox is pure, first three books 0e. The Core Rules adds the "power creep" of the First Supplement (GH), which involved the d8 hit die for monsters, increased damage for monsters, higher spell levels for magic-users and clerics, and various other material associated with that. It does not include the additional classes, and a lot of other material from the supplements - basically it is just the version in which the players chose to go with the optional GH power curve which is close to but not entirely as much as the jump up to 1e.

It's a snapshot, as any portrayal of 0e has to be; there is a host of optional rules in 0e, mutating over time and ending up as something so close to 1e as to have only a negligible difference. The two points of the snapshots are at the pre-supplement 1 point and at the point where a single (but key) optional rule suite from Supplement I is applied without any of the other material.

So far, it's won an award in Finland for "best retro game of 2008," and we're applying for an ENnie nomination. We'll see how that goes given that it's about as retro as one could get, and thus is a very niche "product."

But it's free if anyone wants to take a look at it. The link to the game's website is in my sig.

ExploderWizard · Mar 30, 2009

Mythmere1 said:
But it's free if anyone wants to take a look at it. The link to the game's website is in my sig.

I just saw the updated core rules the other day. The new art is really great and the hardback version is well worth the price.

rounser · Mar 31, 2009

But :-

Part of the beauty of S&W is that any rules you don't like can just be deleted from the .doc file and replaced with what you want. Part of the design philosophy is giving the game back to the hobbyist gamer.

If you have the will, just highlight the to hit table section of the rules, hit "delete", and type in some stuff about BAB by class or THAC0. No, it won't be completely compatible with other S&W's, but they're all house ruled with rules for thieves and skills and whatever else anyway, so who cares?

The hobbyist house rule spirit is it's thing, if you're willing to put in the time to make it yours.

amethal · Mar 31, 2009

rounser said:
Part of the beauty of S&W is that any rules you don't like can just be deleted from the .doc file and replaced with what you want. Part of the design philosophy is giving the game back to the hobbiest gamer.

If you have the will, just highlight the to hit table section of the rules, hit "delete", and type in some stuff about BAB by class or THAC0. No, it won't be completely compatible with other S&W's, but they're all house ruled with rules for thieves and skills and whatever else anyway, so who cares?

The hobbiest house rule spirit is it's thing, if you're willing to put in the time to make it yours.

Thanks, I should have mentioned this aspect of it.

Its simple and safe to change things, so it is perfect for DMs who like to tinker (which in my experience is pretty much all of them).