WotC puts a stop to online sales of PDFs

Odhanan · Apr 10, 2009

Obryn said:
There would be no reason whatsoever to take down both the 4e and older edition materials, if they simply wanted to stop selling the older editions.
-O

I object that first, there is no reason to pull the plug on older materials if the real issue is the piracy of 4e PDFs.

We are told WotC is exploring new ways in which to deliver these online formats. Fine.

If later we see 4e materials reappearing in online format delivered via DDI or other WotC venues, and if, at the same time, we do not see older editions' materials resurface, or very selectively so, your argument here will have lost its appeal.

Shadowsong666 · Apr 10, 2009

Odhanan said:
I object that first, there is no reason to pull the plug on older materials if the real issue is the piracy of 4e PDFs.

We are told WotC is exploring new ways in which to deliver these online formats. Fine.

If later we see 4e materials reappearing in online format delivered via DDI or other WotC venues, and if, at the same time, we do not see older editions' materials resurface, or very selectively so, your argument here will have lost its appeal.

The problem i also have with the whole thing is simply that WotC looks like they act first, think second and communicate sometimes later. And when they communicate, they simply do not offer enough informations for the community to satisfy their desire for information.

Sorry, but we do not live in the 80s anymore. Where is the problem to just make the lawsuit ready, let no new pdfs get published, think about a new way of delivery and when present - start the new delivery system? Where is the problem in easily communicating the when, how and why to your really loyal userbase before it happens (in a civilized time frame)? Don't tell me its a matter of time. Really - i am not believing that. And neither should anyone else imho.

I simply believe that people are making the wrong choices without really thinking things through. Thats sad and hurts.

I really know how hard it is to communicate something to the masses (having a mmo CM background) if the folks above don't give you the OK for the informations the community desires, but that doesn't change my view at the receiving end as a customer here. I respect Scott Rouse and think that his job is really hard and hope he gets payed well enough to the stuff he does, but i really want that to change. Thats like a communication crisis and the longer we don't get any information the bigger it gets imho. And thats a thing that really pisses me off as i know that the whole thing that happened could have gotten another spin with the right way of telling folks how it goes, why it got the point and how itwill go on in the future. But that needs facts which WoTC isn't really good at. Thats really one level with Funcom. Sorry.

ShadowDenizen · Apr 10, 2009

How many PDFs are purchased(and in that vein, how much money WotC makes off of them) compared to how many are pirated illegally. If pirated copies are significantly more common than legitimately purchased ones, I don't see where WotC had any real choice here. The issue is competition. They essentially are in competition with free pirated copies of themselves. If the ratio is really bad, they are in an untenable position.

Yes, we all acknowledge piracy is rampant, and it hurts publishers, retailers and legitimate consumers like. But it is unfortunately, a fact of modern life.

I certainly don't fault WotC for pursuing litigation. BUT, with this new stance, they're currently not even giving themselves a CHANCE to compete in the growing PDF market.

For example, I have been buying older edition PDF's (mostly Planescape, DarkSun and Ravenloft stuff I wasn't able to get when they were in print); I only need a few items to complete my collections, but now that seems like an impossibility to do legally for the time being...

That said, I'd dispute that it's more than just numbers at stake.
Beyond the sheer numbers, other factors WotC should consider include:

1) Fan backlash, including alienation of the "PDF-only" gamers, a growing market.
2) Retailer backlash. How is Paizo/DTRPG, etc., supposed to react to this quite-sudden 180 degree shift in policies?
3) Public perception (this ties in to to #1 above.)
4) Company reputation- And this is something that was ALREADY, it seems to me, on shaky ground (IE: The Dragon/Dungeon debacle from a few years ago, the GSL fiasoco, and the DDI still being a hot mess almost a YEAR after 4E debuted..)

darjr · Apr 10, 2009

Storm Raven said:
The contracts have already been executed, so "maintenance" is likely trivial, if anything. Managing the fees is simple bookeeping, which they probably have people on staff for. It is almost impossible to imagine a scenario in which the marginal costs of the accounting work involved are not completely trivial.

I dunno, I'll have to take your word for it.

For me, if this were a way to eliminate the competition to D&D from D&D I'd think we would see some move towards taking down the clones.

Roman · Apr 11, 2009

OGL protects the outshoots of D&D, so it is doubtful that WotC could do that.

darjr · Apr 11, 2009

Roman said:
OGL protects the outshoots of D&D, so it is doubtful that WotC could do that.

Yes, I agree.

But its about intent. If they were into bone headed moves to eliminate D&D competing with D&D would they not do the next bone headed thing and go after them? They have not.

Dumnbunny · Apr 11, 2009

thecasualoblivion said:
I think people might be missing the big picture here. What we are lacking here is numbers. How many PDFs are purchased(and in that vein, how much money WotC makes off of them) compared to how many are pirated illegally. If pirated copies are significantly more common than legitimately purchased ones, I don't see where WotC had any real choice here. The issue is competition. They essentially are in competition with free pirated copies of themselves. If the ratio is really bad, they are in an untenable position.

I don't follow. If the ratio was, to use completely made up numbers, 3 legit copies for every 4 pirated copies, how is Wizards helped by the ration going to 0 legit copies for every 4 pirated copies? Or, to be more realistic (or cynical), 0 legit for 5 or 6 pirated.

carmachu · Apr 12, 2009

Vyvyan Basterd said:
It's when one uses hyperbole to equate the design of a new game system to that of being forcably terminated from a job.

It insinuates that WotC set out to intentionally lose you as a customer. The decision to no longer be their customer due to the creation of 4E is your own.

The more apt hyperbole would be that you quit being a customer. Actually, that's not even hyperbole and is more appropriate for these boards per the moderator's instructions.

No, no it wouldnt at all, be more apt that one quit being a customer. And its not quite right to say one has been fired as a customer either.

Its akin to GW currently. 4e and GW's newest move its more approriate to say that we(that is the folks that have been around since beginning or near begining, say roughly 30+) are not the target audience anymore.

That would be entirely approriate to say. And perhaps fairly accurate. *shrug* And much like in GW, you can be of the target audience and like and enjoy the product.(for example, my wife and some of her friends LOVE Twilight, but their not the author's target audience.)

jonshaft · Apr 12, 2009

If you want a pdf borrow your friends book, scan it and send WotC some cash in a plain brown envelope. If you don't want the pdf and do want the book, buy it. If you want the pdf but don't want to pay for it, download Pathfinder.