Suggestions for speeding up our 4e game

Sadrik · May 31, 2009

We have not been very quick with our game we generally play 4-5 hours a night and we are having lots of problems with getting into a combat and then letting that eat up the whole session.

We fought a random encounter against several lizard men last night, it took 2.5 hours for five rounds and we got 200xp. Economically this did not feel like time well spent. Last night's 4 hour session was a major drag, after the game we debated a bit on if there were things we can do to speed up combat (here I am). I just don't see how we can get through a session and actually do something other than get into a skirmish battle and then call it a wrap. This happened last session too when we fought a bunch of goblins (the session my wizard died).

We have seven players. This is a pretty major stumbling block because each player takes around a minute or two to do their rounds (including time to switch players).

We have a group of gamers that only a few of us are hard core enough to know the ins and outs of the system and all of its tactical nuance (~50% of us).

We used this last session:
I helped the DM by using cards and calling who was next. Even telling the player who was up next after the current player to get ready.

Are there any other suggestions to speed up combat? It would be nice to turn that 2.5 hour encounter into a 1 hour encounter. It feels like threading a planet through the eye of a needle.

malraux · May 31, 2009

Well, you could go Surviver on the players and have them vote 2 players out of the group. That would reduce the number of players and motivate the remaining players to be more attentive. The DM can grant immunity to the player that brings the best snacks, etc.

Rel · May 31, 2009

How long have you been playing? I've found that our pace has quickened as the campaign has gone on since the players are more familiar with the base combat rules as well as their powers. A lot hinges on what the GM throws at the group though.

I have a tendency to put the PC's in over their heads vs. powerful foes. They always find a way to survive and the game is fun but these combats are always some of the longer ones. But also we don't track XP so nobody is using that as a metric either.

One suggestion I've seen that reduces "grind" and speeds up combat is that of having all attacks do max damage. That reduces the PC attacks to a single die roll and they can pre-calculate the damage for all their attacks. I've not tried this but it might be worth experimenting with.

Greatwyrm · May 31, 2009

Sadrik said:
We used this last session:
I helped the DM by using cards and calling who was next. Even telling the player who was up next after the current player to get ready.

That should help a bunch. Plus, if you're doing something like that, put a time limit on people. Make them pay attention, follow the battle, and be ready to go on their turn. It doesn't have to be draconian, but a minute or two should be plenty.

Also, if you're not using power cards, you should be. Saves a lot of redundant math and looking up stuff in books. If you don't have the DDI character builder, there are lots of good websites with tools to help you make your own.

Can you tell us more about what seems to make things slow down for your group?

malraux · May 31, 2009

more seriously, you should probably have several of the DM tasks handed off to other players and put more publicly. So initiative is kept in the open with 1 player in charge of tracking it. Possibly even damage tracking on monsters. Certainly status effects. Maybe even general mapping on the battlemat duties.

The DM might want to limit certain builds. Beastmaster Ranger for example seems to take a bit more time to resolve; its not a problem in a 5 person party, but with 7, you've got a bit too much. Really, any build that adds extra minis to the board is going to add an extra move action and more time to resolve.

Let see, as a rule, characters should probably handle start of turn stuff on the previous character's turn (taking ongoing damage, regen, etc) so that when they are called, they can start moving. Additionally, end of turn effects happen after they finish and the next person has started, and I'd move * Word into the end of turn stuff, as that doesn't involve the DM. If no one can remember it, then you might want to go ahead and just move start of turn effect to end of turn anyway (as it almost never matters).

The DM might want to look at some of the anti-grind threads. 3/4 HP and double damage, IIRC, will speed up the death of the monsters.

Obryn · May 31, 2009

Didn't you throw in a lot of house-rules powering-down your PCs and forcing reliance on Basic Attacks?

That might be a place to start.

-O

Sadrik · May 31, 2009

Obryn said:
Didn't you throw in a lot of house-rules powering-down your PCs and forcing reliance on Basic Attacks?

That might be a place to start.

-O

No, we have not switched DMs to me yet. We are by the book. Btw my HRs will power up PCs...

Sadrik · May 31, 2009

malraux said:
Well, you could go Surviver on the players and have them vote 2 players out of the group. That would reduce the number of players and motivate the remaining players to be more attentive. The DM can grant immunity to the player that brings the best snacks, etc.

Not going to happen. Although the daughter of one of the players has offered to drop out. Although I think we want to be as inclusive as possible so this is not an option. Is the game really going to break down with 7 over 5 though?

Rel · May 31, 2009

The "problem" with 7 players rather than 5 is that not only are there two extra players whose turns take up time but also the DM must throw in more monsters in combats in order to make the game a challenge. This of course extends to other aspects of the game like Skill Challenges that require more rolls so they can involve everybody, more people involved in roleplaying focused scenes, etc.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with having 7 players. But it will necessarily make your combats more lengthy. That's just how the numbers work.

Personally I only have 4 players and I'm quite happy with the smaller group.

Sadrik · May 31, 2009

Rel said:
How long have you been playing? I've found that our pace has quickened as the campaign has gone on since the players are more familiar with the base combat rules as well as their powers. A lot hinges on what the GM throws at the group though.

I have a tendency to put the PC's in over their heads vs. powerful foes. They always find a way to survive and the game is fun but these combats are always some of the longer ones. But also we don't track XP so nobody is using that as a metric either.

One suggestion I've seen that reduces "grind" and speeds up combat is that of having all attacks do max damage. That reduces the PC attacks to a single die roll and they can pre-calculate the damage for all their attacks. I've not tried this but it might be worth experimenting with.

When I joined the group, I have played the least 4e. However, I am game mechanics whore so I know pretty much all the rules as well or better than the others at the table. The began 4e when it came out, playing every other week. I have been with the group for 8 sessions or so.

Interesting solutions. My gut hunch with the DM is he would prefer to find techniques in figuring out how to improve speed at the table rather than instituting a house rule. When I switch to DM that will not be the case

.

So I am not designing the encounters obviously but what simple additions would you give to make encounters that faster and level appropriate?