3rd Party Products - Do You Care?

GMSkarka · Sep 23, 2009

Voadam said:
I think adamant tried to place itself to make a 1st mover advantage in 4e as well.

Exactly.

I'm sure that we had a huge boost from being literally the first available 3rd-party support for PATHFINDER, but we were also the first available 3rd-party support (in PDF) for 4E, and there wasn't really any appreciable bump.

Part of that, I'm sure, is because we weren't "official" (non-GSL), but I figured that being first out of the gate might've had some effect.....

Jack99 · Sep 23, 2009

GMSkarka said:
Exactly.

I'm sure that we had a huge boost from being literally the first available 3rd-party support for PATHFINDER, but we were also the first available 3rd-party support (in PDF) for 4E, and there wasn't really any appreciable bump.

Part of that, I'm sure, is because we weren't "official" (non-GSL), but I figured that being first out of the gate might've had some effect.....

I think that the reason might have to be found in the schism that 4e created. While some buy 3PP products, it has never been a secret that a lot of people mainly stick to what WotC produces. Maybe 4e 3PP products have been doing poorly because most of those who like 3PP products were fans of 3.5 and the OGL and thus amongst those who chose to stick around for 3.5 and Pathfinder. This would explain why your products have been selling as they do.

Then again, it doesn't explain the success that Goodman Games says 4e has been for them. But for every rule there has to be an exception..

Invisible Stalker · Sep 23, 2009

Condition chips (marked, bloodied, cursed etc.) are my sole third party purchase for 4e so far.

Adventures would be a long shot.

Maps would good.

Monster and character option books have no chance.

First edition settings and adventures reimagined for 4e would be given top priority.

ggroy · Sep 24, 2009

wedgeski said:
Impressive, and no less than expected I would reckon. Isn't there a danger that Pathfinder will have it's own, short-lived 3pp bubble though?

We'll know in a year whether a Pathfinder 3pp bubble has popped, or for that matter whether such a "3pp bubble" even existed in the first place.

In hindsight, there wasn't much of a 4E 3pp bubble over the last year or so to begin with.

Lord Mhoram · Sep 24, 2009

GnomeWorks said:
This isn't a question about whether or not 3rd party support is important to you. It's a question of - if it's available, if it's out there, would you look into it and possibly purchase 3rd party products, or forgo doing so?

I do find that my interest in player oriented stuff - classes, powers, and whatnot are somewhat lessened. But I don't actually use the charbuilder, so that isn't an issue... although I do use the compendium.

For GM stuff, no effect at all. I collect monster books, and I never use the online tools for that stuff. I use my physical books.

Glyfair · Sep 24, 2009

GnomeWorks said:
I've heard talk from some 4e folk that they aren't interested in 3rd party products for 4e due to their lack of being in the DDI-based stuff, like the character builder and what-not.

I can understand this for character oriented 3rd party products. The Character Builder is such a strong tool, it's hard to give it up or play around with the poor tools to include 3rd party races, classes, etc. Feats and magic items are even an issue, but easier to kludge into the builder.

However, I really don't understand those who avoid third party monster products. The monster builder is nice, but isn't close to the same level as the character builder as dominance. I still run with paper with monsters printed on them. Plus, the monster builder is far better in its ability to input third party monsters you want to use. I love the third party monster books (admittedly, choices have been slim or limited).

My question is thus - do you care about 3rd party products?

Obviously a purchase decision is probably going to be largely based on the company's reputation and the quality of the content in a given product, but ignore those aspects: do you even get to the point where you think about those things, or do you ignore a 3rd party product simply because it is 3rd party and doesn't have the kind of support that WotC stuff does?

Right now I think the biggest thing we are missing are adventures. Only Goodman has had a regular line of adventures (and there haven't been that many of them recently). Plus, what we have seen have been somewhat similar. I haven't seen anything as evocative as even the early 3E adventures from third parties (the Freeport Trilogy, NeMoran's Vault, the Witchfire Trilogy, etc.)

I'd like to see more adventures and adventure support material, basically. Monster books (and I don't mean single books that cover just one monster), Location books, Vignettes (ala Atlas' En Route books), are all things I would buy if they seem to be quality products that I would use (i.e. not so unique that they won't easily fit into my ongoing campaigns).

darjr · Sep 24, 2009

I care about 3pp. Mostly I'm looking for settings and adventures. Though some cool things of crunch will get my attention. Like firearm rules, blackpowder and modern and scifi.

roguerouge · Sep 24, 2009

Yes, I care, because I primarily buy modules to avoid DM burnout. I've yet to see a WotC-made module that excites me in any edition. So, without 3PP, I'm not going to DM this edition. I'll play it, but that's about it. And that requires just the PhB.

delericho · Sep 24, 2009

GnomeWorks said:
So here's an honest question for all you 4e folk.

I've heard talk from some 4e folk that they aren't interested in 3rd party products for 4e due to their lack of being in the DDI-based stuff, like the character builder and what-not.

My question is thus - do you care about 3rd party products?

I have exactly five 4e products: The PHB/DMG/MM 1, one of WotC's adventures, and "Halls of the Mountain King" from Goodman Games.

On a philosophical level, I care about third-party products. I would hate to see the third-party market disappear. However, the truth is that, even if I were to become a 4e player, I wouldn't buy anything other than adventure (and, maybe, setting) materials. If I were to become a 4e player, I would almost certainly buy-in to the DDI, and the lack of electronic support for third-party materials is a crippling weakness.

Now, for 3e, I care a lot more about third-party materials. Here, I'm still mostly interested in adventure material. (And, actually, since the advent of Pathfinder, I guess the materials I do get are now first-party again.) Still, I am also interested in things like the "Book of Experimental Might", and so forth. Given that electronic support is not so important with 3e materials, I'm much more likely to buy, provided someone puts out a product that interests me (and I actually get to hear about it).

And, all of that said, my RPG purchases have really dropped off in the last two years. At the moment, it seems that Paizo are the only company to get much money from me, and most of that is in the form of the monthly Pathfinder adventure path books.

Holy Bovine · Sep 24, 2009

GnomeWorks said:
This isn't a question about whether or not 3rd party support is important to you. It's a question of - if it's available, if it's out there, would you look into it and possibly purchase 3rd party products, or forgo doing so?

Aside from settings, adventures and monster books I would not bother with any 3PP myself. This is exactly how my purchasing habits played out during the 3E era. "Crunch" was ignored in favour of "fluff" books (heck even the monster books I got needed some correcting due to the abysmal editing in them.)