Converting True Dragons

Cleon · May 8, 2010

I agree about the high-end spell use. I'm thinking they should get clerical spells as sorcerer spells, and possibly the Water Domain as well.

Their "Using riddling talk and personal charm, pearl dragons entrance those who are not involved in combat or otherwise distracted" sounds an awful lot like a Bard's fascinate spell-like ability.

Cleon · May 8, 2010

Shade said:
Small it is. Updated.

Finito?

Just spotted a typo. The "furthermore" in the Minidragon's Empathy description is missing its first r.

Shade · May 10, 2010

Cleon said:
Their "Using riddling talk and personal charm, pearl dragons entrance those who are not involved in combat or otherwise distracted" sounds an awful lot like a Bard's fascinate spell-like ability.

Here's what we gave the related jade dragon...

Beguile (Su): A jade dragon often speaks in riddles. When it speaks for one full round, all creatures within 10 feet per age category must succeed on a Will save or become enthralled (as the spell). Beguile is a sonic, mind-affecting, language-dependent charm effect. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same jade dragon's beguile ability for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Futhemore, I fixed the minidragon.

Cleon · May 11, 2010

Shade said:
Here's what we gave the related jade dragon...

Beguile (Su): A jade dragon often speaks in riddles. When it speaks for one full round, all creatures within 10 feet per age category must succeed on a Will save or become enthralled (as the spell). Beguile is a sonic, mind-affecting, language-dependent charm effect. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same jade dragon's beguile ability for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

That'd do.

Shade · May 12, 2010

Let's try to figure out abilty score progressions for these fellows.

They don't have an exact match among dragonkind, but it appears that they are 1 step less than a jade dragon in nearly all areas (Hit Dice, Int, breath weapon dice, etc.).

So simply apply a "-1" to the jade's HD at each age category, and a -2 to all non-Dex ability scores across the board?

RavinRay · May 12, 2010

I'd exempt Cha from the -1 (and maybe even raise it) because it's supposed to be a superior spellcaster to the jade, right, so at least the save DCs for its spells should be a bit higher. Otherwise, a Tiny 4d12 wyrmling with a 1d6 breath (+2 progression) seems modest enough.

Cleon · May 13, 2010

RavinRay said:
I'd exempt Cha from the -1 (and maybe even raise it) because it's supposed to be a superior spellcaster to the jade, right, so at least the save DCs for its spells should be a bit higher. Otherwise, a Tiny 4d12 wyrmling with a 1d6 breath (+2 progression) seems modest enough.

Yes, giving them a Charisma boost would suit me.

So use a jade dragon's age categories with -1 to the HD, +2 Cha, no adjustment to Dex and -2 to its other ability scores?

Is its AC the same or should we adjust the NA too?

freyar · May 14, 2010

Well, these are sounding pretty good! Carry on, then...

Cleon · May 15, 2010

freyar said:
Well, these are sounding pretty good! Carry on, then...

Righty oh! Here's the age categories of the 3E Jade Dragon conversion on the Creature Catalog webpage:

Code:

Jade.Dragons
Age........Size..Hit.Dice.(hp)...Str.Dex.Con.Int.Wis.Cha..BAB/Grap..Fort.Ref.Will.Attack.Breath(DC)..Fright.DC
Wyrmling.....T.....6d12+6.(45)....13..10..13..15..14..15...+6/-1.....+9...+6...+5....+7....2d6.(14).....-
Very.Young...S....9d12+18.(76)....15..10..15..15..15..14...+9/+7....+12...+8...+6....+8....4d6.(14).....-
Young........S...12d12+24.(102)...17..10..15..17..17..16..+12/+11...+16..+10...+8....+11...6d6.(18).....-
Juvenile.....M...15d12+45.(142)...19..10..17..19..19..18..+15/+19...+19..+12...+9....+13...8d6.(20).....-
Young.Adult..M...18d12+72.(189)...23..10..19..19..19..18..+18/+24...+24..+15..+11....+15..10d6.(23)....20
Adult........L..21d12+105.(241)...27..10..21..21..21..10..+21/+33...+28..+17..+12....+17..12d6.(25)....22
Mature.Adult.L..24d12+120.(276)...29..10..21..21..21..20..+24/+37...+32..+19..+14....+19..14d6.(27)....23
Old..........L..27d12+162.(337)...31..10..23..23..23..22..+27/+41...+36..+21..+15....+21..16d6.(29)....25
Very.Old.....L..30d12+180.(375)...31..10..23..23..23..22..+30/+45...+40..+23..+17....+23..18d6.(31)....26
Ancient......H..33d12+231.(445)...35..10..25..25..25..24..+33/+53...+43..+25..+18....+25..20d6.(33)....28
Wyrm.........H..36d12+288.(522)...37..10..27..27..27..26..+36/+57...+47..+28..+20....+28..22d6.(36)....29
Great.Wyrm...H..39d12+312.(565)...39..10..27..27..27..26..+39/+62...+51..+29..+21....+29..24d6.(37)....31

Age...................Speed............Initiative..Armor Class.........................................Special Abilities..............Caster..SR
Wyrmling.....40 ft., fly 80 ft.(good)......+0......16 (+2 size, +4 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 16..Immunity to sonic, plane shift....-.....-
Very Young...40 ft., fly 100 ft.(average)..+0......18 (+1 size, +7 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 18..Blink.............................-.....-
Young........40 ft., fly 100 ft.(average)..+0......21 (+1 size, +10 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 21....-.............................1st....-
Juvenile.....40 ft., fly 100 ft.(average)..+0......23 (+13 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 23..........Detect thoughts..................3rd....-
Young Adult..40 ft., fly 100 ft.(average)..+0......26 (+16 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 26..........Beguile, DR 5/magic..............5th...18
Adult........40 ft., fly 100 ft.(average)..+0......28 (–1 size, +19 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 28..Shatter..........................7th...20
Mature Adult.40 ft., fly 100 ft.(average)..+0......31 (–1 size, +22 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 31..DR 10/magic......................9th...21
Old..........40 ft., fly 100 ft.(average)..+0......34 (–1 size, +25 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 34..Sculpt sound....................11th...23
Very Old.....40 ft., fly 100 ft.(average)..+0......37 (–1 size, +28 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 37..DR 15/magic.....................13th...24
Ancient......40 ft., fly 150 ft.(poor).....+0......39 (–2 size, +31 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 39..Song of discord.................15th...26
Wyrm.........40 ft., fly 150 ft.(poor).....+0......42 (–2 size, +34 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 42..DR 20/magic.....................17th...27
Great Wyrm...40 ft., fly 150 ft.(poor).....+0......45 (–2 size, +37 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 45..Demand..........................19th...29

I notice there are a few errors in the CC stats. A Great Wyrm Jade Dragon should have Grapple +61 (BAB39+size8+Str14) for instance, not +62.

Anyhows, applying -1 HD, +2 Cha, no adjustment to Dex and -2 to the other abilities to the first section of a Jade Dragon, smoothing out a couple of stats and fixing a few wonky Grapple modifiers I come up with the following...

Code:

[FONT=Courier New][SIZE=2]Pearl.Dragons
Age........Size..Hit.Dice.(hp)...Str.Dex.Con.Int.Wis.Cha..BAB/Grap..
Wyrmling.....T.....5d12+5.(37)....11..10..12..13..12..16...+5/-3....
Very.Young...S.....8d12+8.(60)....13..10..13..13..13..17...+8/+5....
Young........S...11d12+11.(82)....15..10..13..15..15..18..+11/+13...
Juvenile.....M...14d12+28.(119)...17..10..15..17..17..20..+14/+17...
Young.Adult..M...17d12+51.(161)...21..10..17..17..17..20..+17/+22...
Adult........L...20d12+80.(210)...25..10..19..19..19..22..+20/+31...
Mature.Adult.L...23d12+92.(241)...27..10..19..19..19..22..+23/+35...
Old..........L..26d12+130.(299)...29..10..21..21..21..24..+26/+39...
Very.Old.....L..29d12+145.(333)...31..10..21..21..21..24..+29/+43...
Ancient......H..32d12+192.(400)...33..10..23..23..23..26..+32/+51...
Wyrm.........H..35d12+245.(472)...35..10..25..25..25..28..+35/+55...
Great.Wyrm...H..38d12+266.(513)...37..10..25..25..25..28..+38/+59...[/SIZE][/FONT]

Does that look OK?

Cleon · May 15, 2010

Regarding the armour class, the Pearl Dragon has a base AC of 2 in both the Monstrous Compendium Annual 1. The Jade Dragon we're using as a comparison is AC 0 in Dragon #158 ~~and AC -1 in the MCA1~~.

So, penalize the Jade Dragon's natural armour by -2 or -3?

Correction: The AC -1 Jade dragon is the Mystaran version, not the MCA1 version. I guess we're going for the -2 NA then.

Converting True Dragons

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